DoorGunner53E

He who lives in a glass house, should not throw stones, or write a topic about something one has done before in the past. Use Chain Of Command.

kilroy0097

Everyone out there in the FPS world uses Tags to represent their Clans. It's used so much and so often that it's ingrained into the minds of FPS players. Regardless if they know a tag belongs to an open community or a closed clan they will still subconsciously treat the two as the same. It's not fair but it happens. Hence the disadvantage of having an open Tag such as the one here. But there are also a few advantages to that. For those that understand what the tag means and to those that are honestly good players in the sense of teamwork and the such, the tag means more than a clan tag. So what I say is enjoy what we have here. Keep the ranks up, keep the players clean, don't let anyone with a TG tag soil the name. If you see someone wearing a TG tag acting like an idiot then confront them about it. If they don't shape up then report them. It's that simple. Do whatever evidence you can. Battlerecorder, Screenshot, Witnesses. Make damn certain whoever it is gets their tag revoked. Apathy does nothing but encourage bad behavior.

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Halcyon

I'd like to comment on this.

On more then one occasion TF21 members have been threatened with kicks and bans by non-admin TG members for using assets and equipment.
In all instances the assets were not assigned by the commander, and the TG players dishing out the threats continued on with insulting TF21 as a whole and labeling us as trouble makers.

I know some of the admins already know about these prior incidents, but I felt the need to let the rest of the community know what their own members are doing for their reputation.
It's true that what one player does reflects on his entire team. A pubber that joins TG and sees a TG member mouthing off and being disrespectful will extend that impression to the rest of TG as a whole. I'll admit I did before I found out that TG is actually a pretty good group of peeps and the troublemakers were not sanctioned or tolerated.

However, letting anyone slap your tag on is just a recipe for disaster. You can't honestly expect 100% of every single player walking in to read your rules about conduct and follow them to a T.
The internet has smacktards abundant, this will never change. The fact that the internet grants them anonymity empowers and emboldens them to be complete tards. While there are eventually consequences, by the time they're administered the damage is already done to TG's reputation, as that German fellow had stated.

If you guys really want to put a stop to this, simply typing "stop" in the forums won't do it. Idiots will be idiots, and no amount of conversation will change that.
Having some type of screening process to weed out the sour grapes will save you some of this grief in the future.
And while I understand where you guys are coming from, that's because I read your forums. But, I'm willing to bet that over 80% of your pubbers who play on your server don't visit your forums, and therefore the only reputation they get from TG is what's displayed by your members on the server.

Anyway...it's your group and your server. Obviously you can govern it how you choose, but I'm just giving my feedback and offering another 3rd point of view from what I've seen so far.

Delta*RandyShugart*

TF21 are some of the best tank crewman i have ever witnessed, the way they operate tank squads are excellent.

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P.I.C. No F.S.
NYY NYR

Sonic

It's Thursday night and I just finished PW night, and I feel like crap. After reading these posts I can see how my attitude has affected |TG| as a whole. I feel so bad and I''m sorry if I have given |TG| a bad record. I've only been |TG| for a month so I'm exactly the kind of member your talking about. After waiting 20 minutes for the A-10 to spawn I was kicked, so I rejoined but on the other team. I was then kicked again (you know how the server is, it takes about 5 minutes of refreshing to return). I was kind of annoyed about all the time I waisted waiting for both the A-10 and to re-join (who wouldn't, really?). After coming back on MEC I asked which squad had the LB designated. They said its the Transport. I joined that squad and asked in the team chatt if anyone would like to fly the LB. No response. I then thought I would ride around with the transport helicopters as an engineer, maybe do some demo. When the LB spawned I returned to base only to find another player who just joined the squad was in it. That was no problem... I would simply be his co pilot. So I said "could you please wait for me to return to base, Ill be your co pilot". No response. I could see he took off. I then asked again. Instead of picking me up and spotting for our jets he started joy riding. I asked in a very calm and polite manner for him to pick me up and ill be his engineer/co-pilot. He acted as if I wasn't even there. Within no more than 2 minutes he had crashed and I was forced to wait another 20 minutes for the chopper. I reported him and now I feel regret. Please don't take this as me complaining its simply an apology. After putting myself into thier shoes I can realize how frusterated I would be after encountering a member like that. Assets cause too much drama for me to handle. I'm sure I've pissed a bunch of people off from all these shinanigans. From now on I'm just going to truck it on foot.

Sorry again...

-Sonic

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|TG-Irr|Sonic

kilroy0097

The fight over assets. Perhaps the number one drama issue ever for BF2 and all it's mods. Seconded by improper use of assets or weapons. Third being the lack of teamwork.

This is why places like BF2 Combat have thrived even if people have to pay to play. They require training and applications to even be in an air squad and have access to aircraft or other important assets such as tanks. They have basic training and advanced training course on weapons and they require teamwork and following orders. Because people have to pay to play they take it seriously and those that don't are kicked out or punished in some way.

The only way to absolutely limit poor players that we always talk about would be to literally do something like BF2 Combat did. The ultimate screening process. But that's not something TG is wiling to do I don't think. So we deal with Pubbers the best we can and hope strict rules some how keep the peace. For the most part is does but our quality of play makes us all very demanding of player performance. Are we elitists? Yes. We require a higher standard of play and a conformity of certain rules and methods. We raise the bar and expect players to bring themselves up to that bar. In a society where the bar has been lowered so many times to accommodate the weakest links the general population is not used to a higher bar of standards. Hence all the complaining and whining about stuff.

This will happen and will continue to happen. We simply have to keep the bar high and over time more and more players will reach that bar. The population of those that whine will slowly dwindle. However the patience required to get to that point is huge. So how tolerant is TG? That is what we have to work on and figure out. Where to draw the line. Not only for the benefit of regular members but also new members that honestly are trying.

It's a hard thing to figure out and there is no easy answer.

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Superfast

The core of the current problems isn't caused by the new-comers that don't understand the rules. It's caused by those that understand the rules, maybe put the tag on and start trying to boss new-comers around to get their way it seems.

You should simply try to be inform people in a polite manner about the rules and report them if that fails. Spamming the chat, your squad and the CO about your anger and the assets is unnecessary. Just report it and move on, don't let that you're upset potentially ruin the entire game for everyone else.

And why noy try sharing the assets for a change? And not doing the locked squads all the time either? Maybe take someone less experienced under your wing? You and TG might just gain a new gaming-buddy that way, and THAT'S fun and very satisfying.

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Sonic

I like both your posts (Superfast and kilroy). But, I'm kind of in the middle. I have noticed that most |TG| members respect others because they have built an individual reputation they don't want to lose. Although, I have witnessed on more than one occasion a |TG| wearer lock a squad and hog an asset. I will make a squad named "TRANS HELO" or "CAS JETS" but won't ever lock it. Whenever pubbies come in (which always occurs) I'll help them in anyway I can. But, public players have a "I don't care" attitute. Most of them can be really good guys, respectful, tactical and have great teamwork. Others play as if thier in vBF2. Joining a squad, taking a kit then going on thier own. Or, joining an infantry squad for the first 20 minutes, then when the Jets spawn take a jet and crash it into a mountain within 2 minutes form takeoff. So, I guess its the mixture of regulars and pubbies that make this problem so complicated and hard to deal with.

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|TG-Irr|Sonic

Superfast

Very nice Sonic and i agree but the keyword here is also to try to educate people. If players won't do teamwork, you can tell them to go with another squad. Politely first offcourse, then kick them out. Maybe that wakes them up to the potential fun on the server, maybe not. Either way you as a squad got people in it that atleast trying to work together.

And i know it can be boring doing this, but i've experienced that i have alot more fun in a squad once we get teamwork oriented people in it than without people just running around on their on. Setting rallies etc suddenly just doesn't matter and the game gets dull for the whole squad etc. It's terrible, and i'd rather use 5 minutes organising a proper squad, than running around disorganised.

And by wearing the TG tag i only expect people to do teamwork, that's it. They don't even need to have a mic if you ask me.

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O=T-M-A-N=O

I usually find myself squad leading and I always take the time to get organized before taking off on a rush to some flag. This usually means all the assets are gone, but I usually like to hoof it. If there are squad members that don't stick together, I ask them first, then get rid of them if it gets to the point that they don't listen to SL orders.

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A.WICKENS

Sonic, don't get too down about it. We all go through a learning process and it continues as you play. I am so irritated with some of the behaviour of the recent flood of 'new' TG tagged players that I removed the tag from my name. Does that make everything I do in game correct, hell no. I lose my temper too often and have been temporary suspended recently for swearing in 'all game' text. I am 34 years old lol, how pathetic is that.

I have allowed myself to argue with you personally in game which is also extremely sad considering my age and supposed experience, but there are no hard feelings on my part.
If I remember rightly you are relatively young and fairly new to PR. So you may have got a bit over excited about using the assets, who didn't when they first arrived. I used to be bad about using the kits etc, probably still am.

I think it's great that you are now thinking about how you play. We all do from time to time
and that's part of the learning process too. I personally prefer infantry and I think there is a lot to be said about getting that right before moving on to the use of assets. In my personal opinion (and that's all it is) a lot of the new guys who chase assets don't have a clue how to deploy them in a manner that helps the team anyway. As several long time members have pointed out, boots on the ground win games on most if not all maps, end of argument. People in tanks and APC's and whatever farming points off mowing down infantry don't. These same people often seem to shy away from engaging the other team's armour in case they damage their points generating machine.

I will often run an infantry squad and if you fancy it, you are welcome to join any time.
It's a lot more fun than all these cowards lol (can you sense the bitterness fo someone mown down repeatedly by armour lol) in their big metal death machines.

Halcyon, with regards to your post. I take your comments on board as regards the posible slipping of standards on TG on occasion. I would say this, we get a lot of new players joining as we are a server with a high standard of teamplay. So yes there is a learning curve that these new guys must go through where standards will fluctuate. Sadly this is inevitable. If you are saying these newly tagged players are playing on other servers and letting themselves down then they can be dealt with by the admin team, who do a great job in my opinion. If on the other hand you are having a dig at TG, you know what to do, go elsewhere. We have supporting members that are immensely proud of the set up and the standards that are usually maintained here. Please don't take that personally as I have played with you and you are a nice guy and a good player. I am concerned that these posts can snowball into too much negativity. We simply need to sort out the new players whilst remembering to uphold the standards ourselves when we play.

Anyway just my two cents worth, I will now doubt get myself banned now for something stupid.

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JCTango

Jeez man. Where in his post does it seem like he's having a dig at TG? He's just mentioning stuff that he's observed in the behaviour of people wearing TG tags. As a regular, he's trying to show his concern for the server.

If someone saw that something was wrong with you (crooked tie, food stuck in teeth, bad breath, bad b.o.), wouldn't you want someone to let you know?

If you don't want to snowball things into negativity, you shouldn't use phrases like "go (play) elsewhere"... especially when he's just trying to help.

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Lord of the Mangoes
In the nuclear world, the true enemy can't be destroyed.
In the nuclear world, the true enemy is war itself.

TheSkudDestroyer

TF21 or not, if a player is harrassing you TF21 guys, REPORT HIM!

ex.

!reporting: xxxxx for vigilante, disrespect etc.

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|TG-6th|Skud

JCTango

I've already reported a couple people on the Contact an Admin forum.. have gotten some page views but no post on any action made yet.

I've told my guys to report stuff like this too.. They know where to go to find an admin whenever they're getting harrassed.

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Lord of the Mangoes
In the nuclear world, the true enemy can't be destroyed.
In the nuclear world, the true enemy is war itself.

A.WICKENS

Halcyon and Tango, sorry I just re read my post and it does come across a bit aggressive, not my intention. I think what I was trying to say is that if some other servers have a poor opinion of us thats a shame. If its because of recent poor behaviour by some of our newly tagged players that is disappointing. If its for other reasons then I would question their motives and judgement. I've only played on a couple of other PR servers but believe me that was enough. There is a good reason people come back here, including the TF21 guys. Sorry for the tone of the earlier post, wasn't menat to come off like that. As I say I have played with halcyon and he's cool.

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