JCTango

If you over micromanage squads, you're bound to get into problems like these..

Commanders can't really see everything on the battlefield.. their eyes are as best as what his/her squads tell him.

Usually it's best to give out macronomic commands like "defend this flag/attack this flag" and let the squad leaders decide the best way to carry out that plan. Commanders may have a pretty nice plan, but as we all know, "best laid plans of mice and men often go awry."

If you try to micromanage individual squads to much, it sometimes frustrates the squad leaders. It's sometimes a hassle to even get people (especially pubbies) to follow basic squad leader orders.

The way I see it, the main role for a commander is to give out defend/attack orders to squads and relay intel. Let the squad leaders execute your plans as they see fit .

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Lord of the Mangoes
In the nuclear world, the true enemy can't be destroyed.
In the nuclear world, the true enemy is war itself.

Delta*RandyShugart*

coming from the guy who spams the chat at the beginning of every round....ha jk.

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|TG-6th|RandyShugart


Ask not what TG can do you for you, but what can do for TG.
9/11 - Never Forget

JCTango

Lol.. that was the best April Fools joke on me ever. Damn you nardini! Damn you!!! hehe just kidding.

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Lord of the Mangoes
In the nuclear world, the true enemy can't be destroyed.
In the nuclear world, the true enemy is war itself.

Fligsnurt

I will admit being commander can be extremely fun, but there are certain events that can enhance or destroy your experience. Even if u lose its still fun, especially if u have a team that follows orders (granted i really dont tell squads what to do unless its a dire need.) but just having squads that arent dedicated to help u being able to set / build bunkers w/out the commander haveing to risk his own hide to get out there. But there are times like the other day on Kashan 64 where i found myself as commander being the only person in north village defending it and the rest of the team were wandering around the bunkers looking for a way to capture them against a very well laid out defense. But what im trying to get at is, even with the bad rounds there are always good ones and those are what makes it worth it, imo I think that we should stress people to give it a shot, its not to hard, I've coached a few people threw it before, the basics are as easy as hiting a button and clicking your mouse lol. And even if they are interested in the more indepth parts of it, still not that hard to do either, as long as they are willing to listen to VOIP.... i refuse to type it out, just impossible when trying to lead a squad and complete objectives. I have seen a very slim picking of comanders as of late also, it seems that its the same people every day, granted if they enjoy it there is no problem. But there are some games where we will go half the round w/out a commander and shortly after we start getting pushed back one of the regular commanders steps up to take the position because no one else is willing. Granted some people prefer the squad life to the commander life, but its not all as boring as people see it, sure people frown on it, but try being a front line commander. Its how i play, it keeps the game interesting and i get the ability to see some of the front with my own eyes to improve on my judgement of the situation at hand. Plus i get my fair share of combat in defense of highly contested areas to keep me from falling asleep. :P
Just saying, would like to see some new faces giving orders and being build order jockeys (lol jk) and for those who dont like it because they find it boring or have had bad experiences, give it another shot with some different styles on how u go about it. Because when u get a team that works together, its totally worth it.

IcemanGER

I like this attitude!
+ 1 rep

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|TG-X| IcemanGER

kilroy0097

For the most part this is absolutely correct but there are times that a commander needs to step in and lecture a SL. There is only so many times, myself as commander, can watch the little green dots of a squad get killed over and over again just because that SL can't think tactically. Tard rushing the next flag, that has defenses on it, straight on is not a tactic it's a fool's rush in. So as a commander I give these SLs a bit of advice by sending them on flanks with move orders.

For example: Inexperienced USMC SL 1 and his squad are attacking Gov't Office on Qwai from the rice paddies where his Rally Point is. Running up the embankment, across the road to the wall and going in the front to be mowed down by the crisscross defensive fire looking at that front entrance or being shot inside the rice paddies from on top the roof.

After several or more attempts of this I tired of seeing it and give the order to flank. Move order to the southern part of the rice paddies and hold position. Place Rally. Later when I see the squad has moved. Move marker across the way into the build complex. Place Rally. Now move towards Gov't Office in this general area, do not spread out too thin. Grenadier with Ammo buddy start putting fire down inside over the wall. (The Grenadier used effectively IS your mortar asset) Rifleman and other squad members go down the wall to the front entrance, smoke the hell out of the court yard and then have the Grenadier and Ammo guy join you and then attack under cover of smoke.

Sometimes this sort of micro-management has to happen. If only to teach the SL how to properly flank a position and how to utilize the kits available to him to support his attack. Tactical positioning, movement and usage of assets. Vanilla BF2 was for the tard rush. It's a stupid tactic that worked in BF2 because it was easy to go prone, shoot kill, get up and keep running to repeat seconds later. In PR this sort of tactic without cover gets you completely destroyed.

So yes micro-mangement shouldn't happen on a regular basis. However there are times that the CO really does need to demonstrate a more intelligent strategy to his SLs. And SLs need to learn how to properly and more effectively communicate the situation to their commander so that a commander can make those sort of intelligent strategic orders.

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Halcyon

I'll agree that following commander orders is a part of a winning strategy, but I have to say from recent past experience some of the orders of recent commanders have been beyond idiocy if winning is their ultimate goal.

Using armor as an example, I like to do armor quite frequently, and my crew and I have been ordered in the past to assault fortified positions with no backup and no infantry support, clear across the map and fully in harm's way.
When I play PR I play for the enjoyment and fun factor, and it's not fun to die in armor that has a 20 minute spawn timer. If a commander gives me an order that I clearly know is not smart or tactically sound...I'm not following it.
My tank and my crew come first, and I'll put the preservation of my survival over hasty orders that weren't thought through.

I understand that in the real military it's not a democracy and squad leaders sometimes have to follow orders they know are completely fubar, but the reality is....this isn't real life. It's a game.
If you give power to Joe Blow that has 0% tactical sense or management over the rest of the team with the punishment of a kick/ban for disobeying and saying "you have no idea what you're doing", all it creates is animosity between the players and the server administrators.

I'm speaking more of the rules regarding following commander orders at this point, but my ultimate point here is that I have no problem following commander orders if they're reasonable.

fuzzhead

This is exactly what I mean.... as a commander its so frustrating to see that squad go in the exact same way, again and again, getting slaughtered. Sometimes its like counting your tickets and the squad is more of a liability for the team than an actual asset! You have to assume the squad will die XX amount of times so when managing your tickets you have to factor in this squad as a liability rather than an asset.

Whats worse is when they are all by themselves, and refuse to listen to your orders which would put them in support of other squads. Its kind of like they are playing their own personal war, completely seperate from the rest of the team. I can understand a squad doing this when there is no commander, but when a commander is actively organising assaults AND being successful, why dont these squads listen?!

@Halcyon - yes that is a good point, dont follow foolish orders. But its also up to you as a squad leader to let the commander know that his order doesnt make sense, and explain to him the situation. from my experience, 90% of the time the commander will realize his mistake and let you continue your task.

Outlawz7

Usually when I commanded, there was always a squad like this. While I tried to get the other squads without brain or VoIP together to do something, there was a squad, which knew their sh*t, but they refused to assist the team or me in any way. I often found out, that I'm probably muted by the SL so he can't hear me and can fully dedicate to leading his squad.
It's sad, since such squads are golden when 20 vBf2 sheeps can't do anything and the only ones who could do something, don't want to.
What's also ridiculus, the SLs of such squads are usually PRM-wide known, regulars on PR forums and people who played the game since the stone age and they just want to go out to rape and pillage like a squad can win the entire round by themselves.
Well, those days are over.

@Halcyon
Yep, I hate it when people think a single tank can defend/attack a CP and refuse to assist it. Infantry can benefit from armor support and so does armor, but no one cares.

I also dislike, when players expect one squad can capture a well defended CP and no one wants to assist them, instead they wait at the uncaptureable flag and yell at the squad over chat.
I also dislike why the squad doesn't respond about why they can't capture the flag.
One time I kept asking over chat (SL muted me <.<) and a SM told that they are pinned down by a tank (Estate on Qwai, US side).
Well, the team did nothing, the tank just gave them another excuse not to go there, but at least they stuf'd and I knew the reason, why they cannot capture the damn CP and told them to hold back and let the blue mob get out of PLA main and help them

O=T-M-A-N=O

Randy, You do a great job as commander. It is a tough job and it is hard to know when to move and when to sit back and let the SLs do the work.

I play in Europe when most of the "regulars" are not on. Commanding here in this time zone is easier then where you are with demanding SLs and heated situations. I appreciate seeing you in the hot seat when I do get to play east coast time as I know you have the experience and leadership to try your best for the team.

I am planning to try commander more often in the next few weeks.

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Sparkks

Being Co is an interesting challenge and I would also like to see more people give it a try.

I agree with Fuzzhead in many of his observations. If the CO can get the squads to enact a gamewide strategy it can be really beneficial and fun for all to see the plan come together. However, it is just a game and one of the hardest things to do is to ride the line at micromanaging. There are often more then one way to crack a nut and some Squads form with the ispecific intention of trying out certain tactics that may not have been in the CO's strategy.

It takes am adeptness at commincations to pull it off. Not just by the commander but also by the SLs.

I like COing the maps with big pushes. Like Jabal, Zatar or Kashan 16. These maps work best when squads have some coordination. On these maps the battlefield can change rapidly and the Co's monitoring of the situation can be invaluable to preventing getting pushed right back into the sea. There are oppertunities for fast flanking pushes and great risks at losing certain key flags. If I can comminicate calmly, clearly and quickly the neccisties for a squad to alter its course of action the team can often recover from what would be devistating defeats. One of the hardest things to do on these maps is to convince squads that the push has gotten too overextended, Other Squads may have lost spawns and Sls need to help reestablish RPs in a zone that the team can control

But a Co shouldn't get carried away micromanging a situation. SLs can help the commander greatly by giving feedback about what's happening and what they want or are able to accomplish. A CO can quickly learn which Sls are cooperative and which are a problem he may not be able to get to tow the line.

Different CO's have various styles. Personally, like fuzzhead say above, I like to get the running intel about what the opposing force is doing. I am learning to filter it though and only relay it around if it useful to other SLs so as not to talk too much.

The BF2 VOIP has some limits that hinder what would make a lot of this easier. The inability for SL's to talk directly makes it very difficult to coordinate a 2 squad attack. Too much depends on the CO's skill at relaying info and the SLs ability to accept this management

In addition as a CO I try to recognize that in a battle all that is certain is that plans will change. I try to get assets deployed where there are squads to build them. The new ability to demolish and reposition assets without ticket penalty can be used to great advantage. A CO can move a firebase around as squads flank around the tereign.

google

I tried commanding on Kashan 16 once. Oh the horror, sniff sniff *whispers* I sent so many men to their death.

But in actuality, it's pretty fun at times. I simply started out in a pretty bad position with a destroyed com post in the middle of nowhere. I encourage others to try it and I myself will probably try it again.

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|TG-Irr| Google123456789

=Sonic_Striker=

Randy I've played with you as a commander and although your strict your an amazing leader. Your oders get the job done and people listen to you.

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|TG-Irr|Sonic

salvation

i really dont go CO much.. its hard!
but when i do, i find that before !reporting a SL for not following orders,you let that SL know, that on this server there are RULES about disobeying orders, and a little chat on TS can get him kicked.. not as a threat but as a FACT!
sometimes it works,and at least he got a fair warning before a !reporting action take place.

billyinorganic

Is it okay to verbally discipline your squads for what they are doing and demand that they follow your reason or face for discipline...

This is not insulting by the way, but discipline for not letting the commander control...