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View Poll Results: How Close do you put the assets at a firebase?
On top of it: 15 meters is too far 3 4.84%
Medium Spread: 50m arrangement of AA and 50cal and sandbags 20 32.26%
Broad front: some assets around bunker, but strategic placement of others within 200m 32 51.61%
All Out: build bunker, place assets way far away = 200 meters away 7 11.29%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-27-2008, 02:57 PM   #31 (permalink)
 
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Re: Bunker Use: How to place assets

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzhead View Post
From a developers standpoint, the Bunker/Firebase is meant to be placed in a secluded/protected area, and the 50cals, sandbags and razorwire is meant to be placed well away from that bunker, in places you would find them useful. Thats why you get 200 meter range from a bunker to place assets.

I still see very often players placing wire and 50cals in haphazard position directly on or near the FO, most of the time it doesnt make sense at all to do so but its done anyways. I contribute this to past applications of the assets which were much more restrictive in their placement.

I hope talking about it in this thread and over time players gradually shift their tactics to make the deployable assets much more useful.

Also I hope in upcoming versions we can make the deployables far more useful, protected and effective so players DESIRE these assets strongly when defending, like they would desire jets/tanks/etc..
There is one key thing that really needs a change here imo. The MG loading time when you man it is far too long to make them useful. Now I see why it was implemented, so that you cannot prone, press use, fire a few shots and duck down again. Or perhaps it just has to do with the TOW with one value for all emplacements. At any rate, they would be alot more useful if the timer was say 5 seconds, which would seem realistic.



Another remark is about placing MG's in this version:-------------> DON't

Just don't place them, unless you are 90% certain you are going to use them. Most people place them and run off. Then you waste time, AND waste assets that someone else may need. It also takes from the same pool as the AA emplacements. Countless time I couldn't place AA because someone put all the MG's on an abandoned firebase.
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Old 01-11-2009, 12:42 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Re: Bunker Use: How to place assets

OK, Caveat...end of long weekend and this may ramble some but ...



Forward Operating Bases
First thing, start calling them that.
TG leads and PR rules.
If TG does it and it works others will too.
IMHO


They are bases, not primary spawn points.
200m radius is almost never used and the thing that occurs to me is that 200m placement with 400m between FOB means you could stack 4 50's in and area and really lock it down with only 4, may be 6 guys.




Wire ................attracts attention and wounds friendlies more than it stops anyone from knifing the radio.
In some places, well used, wire is great but most times it is dropped because......Build, MGs Drop wire ...simple formula but not well used IMHO.

Wire makes great roadblocks if overlapped and is underused in that function.



*** QUESTION **** sandbags, deliberately misplaced so they stick up like Close Encounters mountains, .....is that an exploit >?*********

I think it is but I have seen it used to great effect and I wanted to know.
I know that there are server rules and game rules but I have always played by my own rules.
I don't cheat at multi-player games, in any way.
What's the point.

But having said that...cheating is a broad term and when you could spawn RPs into buildings I did it because everyone was doing it and to NOT do it was to give up an advantage.


Sandbags poking up, blocking access and sight lines is not as great an advantage but IF it is considered legal AND "ethical" TG-wise, they are great roadblocks even if you don't dig them.

I am not good enough at placing assets to do be sure and create the effect but if you have seen them on the Kashan Bunker's bathroom vent you know how effective they can be.

-+_+ QUESTION +_+ can things like bunkers and sandbags be multi-part ?
in that once you get the bunker, if you deploy and construct 1 MG and 1 AA the bunker could get a sandbag wall around it or something ?
Like an upgrade ?



FOB Defense.......
Defense is so sadly lacking in any given game it surprises me every time it happens.
Smart, experienced players just assume somebody else will hold the last flag and BOOM we are back trying to get a foothold on the beaches. Even when you are sweeping the enemy from the field( see teamstacking threads ), somebody HAS TO BE tasked with a quick fallback and counterattack on the last flag.

I am picturing Jabal right know because it is my favorite map, one that has evolved through all the changes in PR and is still a good battle but this goes for almost any map.

I know Defense is boring and some people want action and don't have the time or patience to wait.
But if that is the case, let the SL know.
For me, I would let you patrol or whatever or if I really needed a patient ambush type of guy ask you nice to bail.
Sometimes it seems like people pretend to be serious, patient players and then when the bullets fly they are charging to the sound of the guns.
Most times they will pull back after being scolded but that almost vanilla intensity is needed at times, but it has to be channeled correctly.
Ramble..........over
FOBs should not be left up.
That is where a logistics squad can be a great help, in blowing up old MGs after the CO has D/C'd the FOB.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mines and wire w/ sandbags make an unstoppable roadblock, at least once.
But everyone is afraid to place mines because somehow the red dot on the map doesn't equal danger for too many people.
edit: Note to drivers ........burnt out wrecks of vehicles that look like yours, indicates a possible minefield. Mestia South road is TOO easy some times, as is Fools Village.
Is it possible to severely punish the driver, within engine limits and all that ?
Because the way I see it, PR is GOD and god gave man nine, count them nine Anti Tank mines that can kill up to 10 minutes after you are dead.
GOD is not a fool and he understands warfare so we faithful must live up to his unspoken expectations and follow the prophecy.

GOD said to lay minefields.
Real ones.
With marked paths through them, used with wire alone or with sandbags, and we have achieved control of the road.

But, and as usual it's a big but.
If and when the fight moves on, the roadblock has to be taken down, mines cleared etc or that 10 minute rule comes back to haunt you.



I love this game and don't mind any of the usual things people complain about for the engine or the spawn rules or whatever.

I truly do trust that the game developers know gaming better than I do and did things for a reason.
I have seen lots of things change and for me it has always been for the better.
I'm not a sniper and I have personally seen one clean up on Korengal so I tend to think that many of the complaints are totally subjective.

The next release is being teased so now is the time to get the absolute most out of the game before they change it again and makes us all noobs again.











OFF TOPIC EDIT: more ramble so not worthy of a separate post.
Be nice to COs.
Don't badmouth them in the squad channel because the medic might have been your last or next CO and when you don't move when asked, he is going to know EXaCtly what you are saying about him.
Mil-Sim makes sense some times, you don't bitch about command to the enlisted.
I'm pretty sure there is a scene in Gen Kill about it and probably one in BoB but even more off topic, I will pay for a clip of Nolte in Thin Red Line, chewing out the captain guy(who was the tough punk in some 80s chicflick) about how many men he wants to lose.

Is there any way to have a leadership score ?
Something like a ratio between squad points and deaths ?
Make points and medics and aid station points far more important.
I know points don't matter and we are all above that kind of petty measurement but last night I had a great game SL, awesome squad.
Game was so good I never tabbed for score and I was #1 at the end with a negative K.
The way I understand PR scoring that meant I had a great squad who were often within (??) 50m of the SL when making kills so I share in their score.
I have a lot of top ten finishes that way and I think, for SL at least, the overall deaths should weigh against that scoring.
Realism require you to care for your men's well being.
In Thin Red Line, Nolte didn't care if the men passed out from dehydration and in PR we don't care if we die because:
A: it's a video game
B: Score doesn't matter
C: we feel no pain when shot( see A )
D: we can be revived in most cases
I know the revival process has evolved and has been debated and I'm not challening the current system but within it, I'd like to see more attention paid to keeping people alive.
Leadership points would matter to some people, I don't think I'm alone in wanting to enjoy the game but still compete on a real level with other players.
I know ranking brings whores and their attendant camp follower behavior but if the leadership score are hard enough to achieve and don't really give you anything but some hard numbers to compare with other people, I don't think it would be that attractive to the rank-whore type of person.


-Last Edit I swear... Time for some insurgent local 420 action
OK..went to find a funny vid to close and found this.
Reminds me that there is only one reason I play this game, or any wargame I have played.
Because real people really do this stuff, & IMHO it is why I am free to waste time playing games.
So
THANK YOU
to everyone that has served in the military

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...deoid=46279533

Last edited by KomradeObama; 01-11-2009 at 02:11 PM. Reason: More GREAT stuff....really I swear, except for the rambling parts
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Old 01-11-2009, 01:04 PM   #33 (permalink)
 
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Re: Bunker Use: How to place assets

sort of late but oh well ^^

One thing I'd like to add is that what I see People do is in a sense "lose hope" in the FOB. First thing is that when you build it, it should be placed in a spot that easy to defend if defensive or hidden if used for offense. By easy to defend, you should be able to control its exposure either having one or two entrance into a bunker on kashan by razor wire etc. Never have one that can be HAT'ed long range or swarmed 360 by hostiles. I think it needs to be understood that FOB's shouldn't be placed in a "hurry up and put it in the open so we can spawn reinforcements." When you do that, what happens is your forced to defend instead of using it to defend your objective. Then you start to panic and start dumping 50 cals in random spots. Please note that they dont necessary have to be 5ft from the FOB to overrun it and kill your defense. So putting a 50 cal next to the bunker is pointless cause if you can fire at them from your bunker, your pretty much dead anyways. There's a reason why the engine made it 200m away from the FOB, they want you to utilize this.

For offense, keep it hidden... Don't rambo out of a FOB towards the enemy, if they see a group of guys repeatedly charge from a certain point on the map, they will investigate. This compromises the rally or FOB. oh and lastly, rallys next to FOBs, please don't, it confuses spawns and is also pointless.
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Old 01-11-2009, 02:15 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Re: Bunker Use: How to place assets

If I have a secure FOB, I will drop RP much further forward than otherwise.
I call them "attack rallys" because it's only safe if we keep pushing forward.

If this is a late post, sorry.
I searched for FOB placement and this is what came up.
Should I have started a new thread ?
I want people to think about this and bring it up when the SL that never reads forums is about to drop crates..... ya know watta I mean ?
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