CAS infantery

Golgo13 · 05-07-2009, 10:34 AM

Sometimes my squadleader does not call in air support against infantery although they get us pinned in a position disadvantagous to us, like them holding a bunker on Kashan and we having hit the dirt in a fail attempt to rush it, although CAS is up and bored asking for targets.

At times I call in CAS myself in teamchat although Iam not SL. The result is usually CAS wiping out the enemy squad.

I was wondering if some squadleaders out there do not call in CAS on something they can kill so they have something to do. Not accusing anyone here, I was just wondering how other people feel about it, like if they think that if they call in CAS and armor support against infantery on an asset intensive map that they might as well not play.

Ivan_the_bad · 05-07-2009, 12:14 PM

I often feel CAS gets called in on non priority targets, For example a tank in the middle of the desert going to repair, instead of a Squad getting pinned down by 2 enemy squads with and a 50. cal machine gun.

I also far too often see 1 guy hiding ontop of a hill lasing targets for CAS instead, of CAS listening and looking out for Squad leaders asking for urgent assistance because they are about to get overrun.

However there are very good pilots out there that do know their priorities and have good timing, we just need more of them.

**A.WICKENS** · 05-07-2009, 12:29 PM

Ivan I agree re the endless dedicated CAS squads that seem to get priority tasking on maps like Kashan. The amount of times that I can't get CAS as a squad leader because the dedicated CAS squad has already used the ordinance up has got to the point that I don't bother asking some rounds.

I wonder how necessary these spotter squads are, why not leave it up to the squad leaders and fold these 2 or 3 man squads into infantry units, I'm sure we would get more done and the SL's would get priority tasking when they need it.

**thegreatnardini** · 05-07-2009, 12:32 PM

I mainly ask for support when I either have direct contact with the CAS coordinator in their squad, or the pilots themselves. Usually typing it out doesn't seem to work, either it takes too long or no-one sees it.

Belhade · 05-07-2009, 12:40 PM

I agree - overwhelming firepower should be used against entrenched positions, even if this means CAS vs. infantry. The friendly infantry should then be used to clean up any survivors and entrench themselves in place.

Ivan_the_bad · 05-07-2009, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.WICKENS

Ivan I agree re the endless dedicated CAS squads that seem to get priority tasking on maps like Kashan. The amount of times that I can't get CAS as a squad leader because the dedicated CAS squad has already used the ordinance up has got to the point that I don't bother asking some rounds.

I wonder how necessary these spotter squads are, why not leave it up to the squad leaders and fold these 2 or 3 man squads into infantry units, I'm sure we would get more done and the SL's would get priority tasking when they need it.

Exactly mate, alot of squad leaders just dont call in CAS as they know it will probably not arrive or arrive way to late.

It would seem a good idea to be on standby on the runway as a pilot, So as soon as a laser marker goes up, you are able to get to the target within 1 mintue rather than 5 minutes because you wasted your ordinance on a tank in the desert and took a hit from an AA platform,Which by then the squad that called for CAS has been killed.

I have probably never seen CAS get called in Danger close by a squad leader, but instead i see CAS get called on enemy squads that arent even engaged in a fight, from a spotter ontop of a hill.

**Bullseye2550** · 05-07-2009, 01:23 PM

cas works best this way:

first: COMMANDER
second: CAS Squad (1 sql for coordination with co, 2 pilots, maybe 1 sniper/sql can offer him his officer kit)
third: sql of CAS not in the field/fight, sniper/last squad member of cas is in the field.

communicatin with all sqlers to the CO for targets, lasers, ...

CO can transfer attack markers from a squad to the cas squad, can talk to the sql when the cas wants the laser, can ask if there is AA, ...

That is then near Reality. (with Regulars it works fine)

(another way is to use mumble with Sqleader channel, but then there are no attack markers, ...)

**d1sp0sabl3H3r0** · 05-07-2009, 01:35 PM

Bullseye is correct - CAS works best with a CO.

Dedicated CAS squads with a spotter seem rather selfish and may not be acting in the best interest of the team. However, CAS is totally ineffective with 30 laser targets popping on their HUDs at one time, so a little bit of order and control is necessary to be most effective.

With no CO in place, use the proper team coordination channels on teamspeak or use the mumble coordination channel for squad leaders to get the most out of CAS.

**Namebot** · 05-07-2009, 04:32 PM

I am pretty sure the number one reason most pilots want a dedicated spotter is to avoid

TANK

TANK ON ME

SHOOT TANK CHOPPER

laser targeting

laser targeting laser targeting

the way they want it called in is like this:

tank

D1k5

lazed

and trust issues with their team lazing a tank with a AAV 30 meters away from it that shoots the aircraft down

**Startrekern** · 05-07-2009, 04:34 PM

The vast majority of the time I've ever flown a bomber, I sat on the runway (to avoid getting shot down) or just flew around at mid-high altitude because no one ever used the air support against infantry targets/FOBs/et cetera.

Another major beef I have is that quite a few people laze targets and then don't tell you where the heck they are even when you ask -- you have to kind of guess.

EDIT: Ninja'd by namebot!

**Crawlingeye** · 05-07-2009, 04:53 PM

One reason why CAS is hard to use at squad leader -> Commander -> CAS level is because of how fast paced the battles are. Unless everyone slows their game down and takes their time I don't see a change in how CAS works at the moment.

Golgo13 · 05-07-2009, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d1sp0sabl3H3r0

Bullseye is correct - CAS works best with a CO.

Dedicated CAS squads with a spotter seem rather selfish and may not be acting in the best interest of the team. However, CAS is totally ineffective with 30 laser targets popping on their HUDs at one time, so a little bit of order and control is necessary to be most effective.

With no CO in place, use the proper team coordination channels on teamspeak or use the mumble coordination channel for squad leaders to get the most out of CAS.

Thats like mech infanter vs infantery squad with an apc attatched. If the team is good squadleaders should call in CAS where they need it, if the team is no good cas is more effective with its own spotter, but glad to see nobody thinks calling in CAS takes things away from them to shoot at.

Celestial1 · 05-07-2009, 05:25 PM

The problem is 90% the calls, 10% the pilots.

Calls usually result in inspecific coordinates (Tank on Squad 7!...That's nice, give me a minute to just pop up my caps menu and find where you are... oh, you're dead already), and a lack of target communication (Is it a tank? AA? Infantry? Lazed? Can you tell me when I've killed it?). Also due to the fact that insignificant targets are called far too often (Got a tank at South Village? Cool, but we still don't have South bunker, worry about that first!)

Sometimes a pilot absolutely needs to have his wits about him. If the fighter is not flying, or if his fighter escort is being a bit more of a sky-hog than a protector, then the ground-attack pilot should be very well aware of his surroundings, as it probably isn't too good to make a second attack run on the same target. Teamspeak/Mumble is best for coordinating with the ground as pilots do not have the opportunities to type out their objectives; they can talk while flying much easier, and due to this it is one of the most effective ways of calling in some CAS pilots for an attack that is effective, precise, and devastating.

Taip3n · 05-07-2009, 05:53 PM

As a predominant Infantry player and often a Squad Leader, I have to agree with Ivan the Bad and A.Wickens' point, feeling the same.

Leaving uberjoysticks or other computer hardware aside so you can actually fly, as it is found in general this has happened in tanks or APC's in the past anyway. The problem, I believe has occured as many Squad Leaders have not had the luxury to fly planes or be their dedicated spotter - because these toys are always taken up time and time again, leaving the rest of us to do the grunt work. So basically we don't know such isssues because we have resigned ourselves to the fact we are good infantry players.

However, I think this an excellent thread because the pilots talk of their problems which we as a team can incorporate into our understanding. I.E, calling out position as Namebot suggested:

'the way they want it called in is like this:

"tank

D1k5

lazed"'

This in turn will allow the fluidity Ivan and Wickens refer to, and is the better in dynamism and fluidity than a dedicated spotter, though the latter of course has alot of practicalities in poor teams.

Well done Golgo13 for highlighting this issue, and hope someone plus 1's you for it because of your holistic attitude and desire to strive to a higher level.

**Bullseye2550** · 05-07-2009, 06:24 PM

reread my post above:

It should work like this:

SQL1 to CO: we have 2 tanks + AA on my attack marker (if no AA is reported CO will ask if there is AA)
CO marks Tank and AA on the map
CO to SQL CAS: 2 tanks and AA on your new attack marker, will ask for laser, standby in the area
pilot now knows where the AA and targets are (more important is for him to know where the aa is)
CO to SQL1: can you lase the AA? AA is priority target, say when lased
SQL1: yes (no = bad, dont want to risk jet)
SQL1 to CO: AA is lased
CO to SQL CAS: AA is lased on your marker
pilot attack
SQL1 to CO: AA down
CO to SQL1: lased tanks now?
.....

i have done that as co on muttrah and kashan and it worked fine