It’s time to start enforcing the rules on TG tagged players. - Page 8

**WDT_Alpha_s9** · 05-29-2009, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d1sp0sabl3H3r0

This is the deal:

It is extremely frustrating to me personally that so many people only see things as right or wrong. It is extremely disheartening that people are being called out for using their brains and being creative to solve problems. It is absolutely mind-boggling that the two instances cited in this thread were both cases where players were helping their team, not hurting it, yet both players are being told that what was done was wrong and against the rules.

The fun has been sucked out of it for me. I'm leaving for a week. There's no martyrdom there at all, trust me. I wouldn't give any of you the satisfaction.

Enjoy the vacation... and remember, no drunken headbutts Jack!

Oh, and if you decide to go incognito, we can make a spot for you in one of the "common man" squads... I'm sure nobody would recognize you in one of those. Ziiiiing!

Riffraffselbow · 05-29-2009, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d1sp0sabl3H3r0

I spoke with Bullseye about this incident on x-fire and he vehemently denies using the language he is accused of using. I could pull the the chat logs when they're released, but I don't see the point and what would be the point, anyway? To issue a ban on him for swearing?

This has been said before and apparently it bears repeating: Communication between players is the best way of avoiding these type of things. Perhaps asking Bullseye what is going on without taking on an accusatory tone would have gotten a better response?

Let's also consider this: Was he taking an apc to one-man it to farm kills? Absolutely not. Is this then a clear violation of the rules? I would say it is a judgment call for the admins to make, and I would probably say not in this case. Why? He wasn't taking the apc off to a corner of the map as personal transport to abandon it and go climb into a tree stand to snipe. He wasn't taking the apc to some super secret ambush spot to rape enemy logistic trucks and jeeps as they drove by. He was essentially using the apc as a tow-truck to get an asset worth 10 tickets and on a 20 minute timer out of a ditch so it could continue to be used by his team.

Let me give another example of one-manning an asset. It was EJOD 64, we were MEC, and we were up against a team full of TG-tagged players. My team had just had 2 butt-whippings in a row, and things didn't look any better for this round, either. The round started and I'll be darned if there wasn't a tank squad formed instantly, but to my surprise there were no apc squads and no one was taking one. That left about 5 infantry squads to walk from MEC main to EJOD city. We were going to lose this round in about 5 minutes! So, I elected to get a crewman kit and load my squad into the BTR and drove them into the city to establish a position and try to keep the US team from capping. Yes, I was one-manning an asset! I then turned around and picked up another full squad still walking from MEC main that were about half way from the main to N. Desert. I took them into the city, then turned around and did the same thing with a 3rd full squad. All this time I was one-manning the apc. After the 3rd trip into town I ordered one of my squad members to get a crewman and man the gun. I started the round with no intention of running an apc but the situation on the team dictated that I must, so I did. We were then destroyed by a H-AT or the TOW, not sure which, and it doesn't matter.

I'm not sure what everyone's opinion of this little adventure is, but I would have to say that in this case, one-manning would be acceptable (and not because I was the one doing it). The asset was being used as it was intended, to ferry troops back and forth. Once it became clear that I would have to change the role of the apc from transport to offense/defense, I took on the additional crewman to properly man the asset.

So, if you all think Bullseye should get banned for his actions (permanently, as some have suggested), then I guess I need to go, too.

Communicate with the other players and find their intent.
Report issues to the admins as necessary and provide evidence where required, then move on.
Leave the admining to the admins.

Thanks for posting this. I've been in situations similar to yours, but I always regarded the "no 1-manning" rule as a hard line. Thanks for clearing up the exemptions.

**Ferris Bueller** · 05-29-2009, 04:45 PM

Well, I think I've kept my mouth shut for long enough on this one.

So heres the deal folks: everyone needs to take a step back, do a little self-evaluation, re-read the rules, SOPs and primer and go back to the game with fresh eyes. I'm sure that it's with the best intentions that threads like these come up. I've read all eight pages and several people from all sides make very valid points. However, if we were all doing what we are supposed to be doing, it would be a decidedly different thread, in that it wouldnt exist.

Let me take a minute to remind you guys of a few things here (and these comments are NOT aimed at anyone in particular, so if you take offense at something, it's your own problem):

Although the OP was on point with the topic, it has since moved beyond what was originally being discussed. Keep it on track ladies.
Regardless of what anyone might think, we have the best god damn admin team of any server in any community on the entire internet. These guys BUST THEIR ASSES for us to have a great place to play. Keep that in mind before people go ragging on them for not being omnipotent.
The admins job is not to hold your hands and make sure you're doing the right thing. TG's emphasis has always been about maturity. Part of being mature is knowing how to stand on your own two feet and follow the rules. The onus is on YOU to do the right thing, and if that's too hard, remove your tags. It's that simple.
Teamstacking is ALWAYS going to be an issue. This is a logical setpoint. People are going to want to play with their friends. TG isnt a soviet gulag, we allow you to do just that. If the teams get TOO lopsided and one team is continually stomping the other, let the admins know so they can work to correct it. Getting pissed off and screaming about stacking is not the way to do this, however.
Relax, Gentlemen, lest we forget this is a game. None of these issues is the end of the world. However, it is time for everyone, and I do mean EVERYONE, to step it up a notch. Quit jumping down people's throats. Quit slinging accusations. How about we start acting like adults, playing the game the way its supposed to be played, teach those that dont know how, responsibly report problems, and get ourselves back to the point where we can all actually feel like we've EARNED the right to be the most highly regarded gaming community in the world. Make sense to you all?

Bottom line is this: there is a serious lack on all fromts of TG's core values around here. It needs to be fixed. The admins cant do it for you. The IHSes cant do it for you. The game officers cant do it for you. Apophis cant do it for you. YOU are responsible for fixing it yourself. Every last one of you, myself included. If you cant see fit to be part of the solution, then kindly remove your tags and get out of the way. TG has been my home on the internet for years, and it really pains me to see this kind of garbage coming up. So how about we all pitch in and show everyone what a real TG server is supposed to be like and stop all this petty nonsense?

**caffeine** · 05-29-2009, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtboy

i am cool...

A puppy!

**Namebot** · 05-29-2009, 05:47 PM

Lets eat it.

**Wookie** · 05-29-2009, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charity Case

Maybe I come off as sounding soft to many of you. And maybe I don't sound especailly "TG." But at the end of the day, I'm here to have fun and relax and hang out with my friends. And I'm not going to let a some bunny-hopper or guy one-manning an APC ruin my vibe. And I'm certainly not going to start tearing apart this community just because some people don't interpret the rules in the same way I do.

Charity....you sound EXACTLY TG

**Berlancic** · 05-30-2009, 07:36 AM

Well gentlemen, after thoroughly re-reading this thread, I believe that we as humans can only do so much. That there will always be people who don't understand, the admins job will never go without frustation, and that people always have the ability to be smacktards. There is simply not much we can do about it, and if we were, we'd take away some of the population on the server. And to be honest, people need to learn before they can be all teamwork and for the team, you can't just expect everyone to be like that. Some want to, and other don't, they're just people like all of us.

What I'm saying is, it's hard to change people, but it's not impossible, they just need to learn. Whether it be from enforcing the rules or whatever, they soon shall learn.
Or end up a vanilla idiot, but eh, what can ya do! If people like Arcade style like Bf2, let them! Soon they'll realise PR isn't for them, and we'll all have a small essence of happiness for a day or two!

**TheSkudDestroyer** · 05-30-2009, 04:08 PM

Something about this thread still irks me; Legitimate discussion on interpretation of the rules between long-term TG members and admins is being skirted because bad apples in this thread have come to publicly state they didn't like each other...

The intent of the thread was to consider the treatment of TG players breaking the rules - not to publicly name members and add edits of "i don't like you..." Disgusting.

Things got heated. Some tempers were tested; That's a good thing.

I've been in training for the past 9 months. We have serious standards about not offending people - so much that I have to constantly monitor what I say around females, rank, etc. I've had shouting matches with many people - kind of like in this thread between senior TG members - but never did my shouting matches result in personal attacks. The arguments always stayed focused on the point. On the opinions. And while bad words may be said and someone is yelling, it's still professional.

If admins and older TG members can keep it professional, even when it's heated, why can't everyone else?

**thegreatnardini** · 05-30-2009, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riffraffselbow

Thanks for posting this. I've been in situations similar to yours, but I always regarded the "no 1-manning" rule as a hard line. Thanks for clearing up the exemptions.

The rules aren't always set in stone. If you have a valid reason, explain it to everyone.

**Berlancic** · 05-30-2009, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSkudDestroyer

If admins and older TG members can keep it professional, even when it's heated, why can't everyone else?

This was meant to be a rhetorical Q? If not, I'll give you reasons why, I think:

*People are trying to play the game/men can't do 2 things at once, usually (I.E. they're focusing on how to play, what is best so on, so forth.)

*They don't know what it is when people say 'professional', they haven't learnt it yet

*Everybody's immature at some point in their lives, sometimes it's a laugh but other times it consequences (in this context, they sort-of have consequences, unless admins kick people for not being professional)

*This is an expectation? If so expectations for people on the server are nice, but those people usually don't read the rules/primer/anything. So we can't expect these people to live up to these expectations if they don't know what is expected of them in the first place!

In conclusion, we're only human, life is unfair, the best we can do is set these rules, have an enforcement system (i.e. warning/kick/ban) and take whatever the world throws at us. Because that is life in a nutshell.

**Ferris Bueller** · 05-30-2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berlancic

This was meant to be a rhetorical Q? If not, I'll give you reasons why, I think:

Yes, skud's question was rhetorical. However, the reasons listed in your response are cop-outs IMHO, and I'll explain why. Keep in mind, this is nothing against you, just goes towards the relevance of the topic.

Quote:

*People are trying to play the game/men can't do 2 things at once, usually (I.E. they're focusing on how to play, what is best so on, so forth.)

People can absolutely do two things at once. Ask any of the admin staff who routinely have to do that, or anyone who's ever led a squad or commanded a team. The whole "walking and chewing gum" analogy is null when dealing with common sense issues.

Quote:

*They don't know what it is when people say 'professional', they haven't learnt it yet

In this regard, if people dont know how to conduct themselves in a professional manner, for whatever the reason is, they shouldnt get involved. Thats one of the big problems in threads like these.

Quote:

*Everybody's immature at some point in their lives, sometimes it's a laugh but other times it consequences (in this context, they sort-of have consequences, unless admins kick people for not being professional)

Of course, but the expectation is that you conduct yourself with a level of maturity when you're playing on our servers or posting in our forums. Beyond that, its not just an expectation, its a requirement.

Quote:

*This is an expectation? If so expectations for people on the server are nice, but those people usually don't read the rules/primer/anything. So we can't expect these people to live up to these expectations if they don't know what is expected of them in the first place!

This is the reasoning that I have the biggest problem with. Again, it's not you doing this, so dont sweat it. But anyone who has ever played on any server for any game in the history of online gaming knows that every server has rules.

Now, those rules may be consistent of "dont complain about anything or we'll kick you", but they're still rules regardless. In addition to that, we have scrolling messages on the server in bright green text that outline the major rules and give directions as to where to find the rest. If you get on a server and break the rules out of ignorance, you dont have an excuse, especially on servers like ours that make them abundantly clear.

The bottom line is that we expect everyone to live up to the rules and expectations of play and character on our server, regardless of whether its some random pubbie coming in for the first time or its Apophis dropping in for some well intentioned frivolity. Everyone is held to the same standard, and thats what makes the rules work. Granted, we do set aside a bit of leeway for newer players and do our best to instruct them in the way the world works before taking punitive action, but you get the point.

Quote:

In conclusion, we're only human, life is unfair, the best we can do is set these rules, have an enforcement system (i.e. warning/kick/ban) and take whatever the world throws at us. Because that is life in a nutshell.

But it's more than that. As I said previously, its not just the admins job to keep the server respectable. Its our job too. Each and every one of us needs to pitch in and do everything we can to safeguard our servers. Taking what the world throws at us isnt enough, we have to be proactive and creative and solve those problems as they arise. This is what we all agreed to when we decided to put the tags on. Upholding TG's ideals is about more than just playing by the rules and ethos. It's about making sure that everyone else does too.

Sabre_Tooth_Tigger · 05-31-2009, 03:24 AM

Im all for open tactics, pr wouldnt be half as good if the variety of opportunities wasnt there

**Berlancic** · 05-31-2009, 06:58 PM

A point well proven. No I don't take offense or anything, this is just a discussion and it's peoples opinions.

Golgo13 · 06-02-2009, 08:36 AM

Everyone gets to wear the tag, maybe people who wear the tag with no in house affiliation should be made to play without the tag or be banned, if they behave badly. There are quite some rules on the server, but it still takes some effort to get on the bad side. If you one man a vehicle to get it to your gunner and tell the admins you are doing just that you usually are in the clear.

I also noticed a breakdown in inter squad communication. The use of TS almost broke totally down with people not getting in the appropriate channels if they log in and mumble not having closed the gap. The high level of play was largely due to TS, coordination means everyone has to do something, if there is no communication, the minds start to wander there is no immediate goal, no sense of urgency squadleaders start doing whatever and thats when boredome and chaos sets in.

The breakdown that happend on an inter squad level, trickled down to a degree to the squad level.