Vehicle Kills Clarification

Dreadnought · 07-02-2009, 12:32 PM

Maybe all this needs is a link to where it's posted. I didn't find anything definitive after some moderate searching.

I've heard it is illegal to intentionally run someone over, I've heard it is legal to run someone over as long as you didn't do a U-turn to come back for them, I've heard if you slightly change your direction with the intent to run someone over it is illegal. I've also seen people that did not thing there was any rule against roadkills.

I bring this up because a few minutes ago a TG member of the enemy team had 3 roadkills in 5 minutes with an FAV; 2 of which were me. The first time he charged us from a long way off in a straight line, the 2nd time he swerved to get me within 50m. He didn't do a U-Turn to come back for us at any time. If this is legal just let me know so I won't feel guilty doing the same.

**snooggums** · 07-02-2009, 01:03 PM

Vehicle roadkills falls under the strive for realism rule, people in real life don't go out of their way to do U-turns to kill enemies instead of using their guns, but a heavy enough vehicle won't stop just to avoid hitting an enemy in front of them.

In the wording of your two examples the enemy player simply did a hit and run which I have not seen punished on the server before as single incidents happen during combat and are not big deal. How did he get three of you in a straight line? Didn't you try to move out of the way?

A vehicle with a mounted weapon in most cases should shoot the infantry instead of running over them for various reasons. A good rule of thumb is: If you are surprised (sapper approaching a tank, guy with RPG in front of you and you are moving, enemy on the side of the road shooting at your light vehicle) you can make a quick adjustment and hit them without issue. If you have to make a hard turn to get them at a distance you are probably in the wrong. If you got in the car and thought "man I would love to run someone over with this thing" you are in the wrong.

**ollie_fool** · 07-02-2009, 01:03 PM

Quote:

1. Strive for realism

Tactical Gamer promotes playing the game in as realistic manner as possible, with players utilizing military tactics to the best of their ability. The game should be played with the emphasis on teamwork and tactics, and players should avoid at all costs utilizing a feature of the game as an exploit to gain an advantage over their opponents. Use weapons and vehicles in as realistic manner as possible.

It all depends on the situation, it may be realistic to run down one player if he is a potential threat and in the path of a vehicle, but think about the RL consequences of continually running over people at high speeds in a relatively low armoured car, the damage sustained cannot be realisticly shown due to the game engine and so the we enforce rule #1 to prevent unrealistic behaviour such as using cars to continually run people down. In your case i would deem it accetable as it seems they only made a slight deviation, as you were a threat, if they had missed and done a U turn to try again that would be a different story.

Dreadnought · 07-02-2009, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snooggums

In the wording of your two examples the enemy player simply did a hit and run which I have not seen punished on the server before as single incidents happen during combat and are not big deal. How did he get three of you in a straight line? Didn't you try to move out of the way?

The first time we thought we were not seen and did not fire until we realized he was heading for us. (me and one of my squad members) He killed us both. We spawned at nearby rally and approached the same location. As we neared the first incident, he again quickly came into view and made a sharp turn to hit just me. Again, I'm not complaining about his actions if they are legal.

**Spitfire14** · 07-02-2009, 01:24 PM

If Im driving a com truck or humvee and I catch a group of guys running down the road in front of me, Im not weave out of the way and give them a friendly honk.

**MarineSeaknight** · 07-03-2009, 02:03 AM

I try to always catch at least one unsuspecting PLA soldier on Qwai not looking both ways before crossing the street, even if it means changing which side of the road I drive on.

I, however, do not change roads/courses, make 3-point turns, to get road kills. There's bigger badder things like the mass hordes of PLA APCs to deal with.

I'll also give you a friendly honk while you're laying incapacitated on the ground.

---

I think the general rule of thumb here is:

Hit and run (ok) vs. U-Turns, Out-of-their-way-to-run-you-over (not ok) situations.

**Startrekern** · 07-03-2009, 02:05 AM

Example:

You look to your right in a humvee and 20 meters away is a guy with a HAT kit aimed at you.

Hmm..

**Namebot** · 07-03-2009, 02:14 AM

This means you are driving perpendicular to him making you a hard target. He will be hard pressed to turn the rocket while keeping accuracy. I suggest you drive quickly to the nearest cover.

**Startrekern** · 07-03-2009, 02:22 AM

It was just a random example.

I pretty much agree with Marine's post.

Celestial1 · 07-03-2009, 02:23 AM

20m away + perpendicular to target = very bad accuracy.

Unless he's pulling a luck shot only firing when you enter his crosshair, you shouldn't risk driving towards him.

It wasn't a very good random example.

Better:

HAT is standing on side of road in your direction, but in perhaps a ditch or off the beaten path a bit.

Going straight on is almost guaranteed to be a death wish. Heading 10-20m out of your way to dispose of a huge threat with a bumper tap?

**=KOF=CR8Z** · 07-03-2009, 05:24 AM

imo, if you take out infantry while driving as targets of opportunity, it's okay. If you set out to take run over infantry, you're not striving for realism.

On the flip side of that, you want those FAV's and Humvees to come in close where infantry are more effective and the vehicles less so. Just don't get hit. Find a tree or a rock or something to hide behind. Shoot the driver and then the gunner if possible.

**fullkontact** · 07-03-2009, 09:41 AM

i was the one in the FAV, i apologise for running you down. The first strike was 2 infantry men who were snipers. My 50 gunner was firing but due to infantry and humvee to the west i did not stop i kept going. The second time i was moving to lay mines at the land bridges. There was a lone infantryman, i had no 50 gunner so i turned at a 30 degree angle and took him down.

I didn't want to run people over, i often avoid it... Much to my dismay when i get shot up once i've hopped out. However these infantry were a threat to my mission for denial of vehicle access and destroying the bridge, i felt it necessary to bring them down. If an admin believes that this behavoir calls for a ban i will accept that.

**d1sp0sabl3H3r0** · 07-03-2009, 12:01 PM

No, it doesn't call for a ban FK.

This is one of those gray areas where we don't have a specific rule against it, like teamkilling or baserape, but instead it falls under the Realism rule, which is basically open to interpretation. Compounding the issue is the fact that everyone reports players running over others repeatedly when, in fact, they might have been the only player run down. I've witnessed this myself several times on the server and we all know it's a fact.

Someone running down another player does not violate any rules. I know I'll catch hell for this, but complaints about this are just sour grapes. You died and you'll have to accept it. The problems occur when a player abuses the bf2 engine and the lack of vehicle damage and uses their vehicle to run people down repeatedly. Unfortunately for everyone - players and admins - this is tough to call someone on most of the time (although there are the times when it is blatantly obvious), especially in-game. Your best way to deal with this is to pull the BR file and WeGame or FRAPS the event and see if the player driving the vehicle is trying to get his roadkill badge or was just going from point A to point B and you were in the wrong place at the wrong time. If it is abuse, please report it to any of the PR admins and we will gladly deal with the issue.

**Exuve** · 07-03-2009, 10:39 PM

It's as simple as this, don't go out of your way to run someone over.

Balfa · 07-07-2009, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial1

HAT is standing on side of road in your direction, but in perhaps a ditch or off the beaten path a bit.

Going straight on is almost guaranteed to be a death wish. Heading 10-20m out of your way to dispose of a huge threat with a bumper tap?

If I see a HAT and I'm in a HMMWV or similar, I'll immediately turn so that he's facing my side and drive as fast as I can keeping him side-on as much as possible. Turning towards him, even if he's at close range, makes it far easier for him to hit you. If he's ready to fire, I'm dead. If he's not, he's dead. Given that he's worth one ticket and me, my passengers and the vehicle can be worth a lot more than that, it's not a gamble worth making.

Also, as a side note to the thread, I presume for tracked, armoured vehicles, there'd be almost no rules against roadkill? Given that there's no possibility of damage to your vehicle and the turret's lack of effect at extremely close range, having the driver circle all day long trying to kill a hopeful scallywag seems like a totally realistic and acceptable tactic.

Obviously, if the driver instructs the gunner to hold fire so he can hunt squishies with his tracks, it's another matter.