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Old 07-25-2009, 12:44 AM   #31 (permalink)

 
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Re: Obaying bad SL orders

A-I-D-A. Attention, interest, decision, action.

Attention -- Do I have your attention?

Interest -- Are you interested in being in the squad and following orders and if you feel its going to be a death trap maybe suggesting something else, but doing so in a manner that is productive and not doing it as a complainer?

Decision -- Have you made your decision?!! If I take your suggestion under advisement, but still go ahead with what the CO has planned, or what is coordinated on mumble or TS, what will your decision be?

Action -- Help the squad and the team.

A-I-D-A.


You, isn't directed at anyone. In this case You is the general PR public/Squad members.
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Old 07-25-2009, 02:44 AM   #32 (permalink)
 
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Re: Obaying bad SL orders

Aida? Do you go to the opera?
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Old 07-25-2009, 05:56 AM   #33 (permalink)
 
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Re: Obaying bad SL orders

Aida? Have you been educated in advertising techniques?

Except it would be Desire.

I would post a relevant item. But I would simply repeat myself from my last few posts in this thread.
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Old 07-26-2009, 10:47 AM   #34 (permalink)
 
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Re: Obaying bad SL orders

"Adia, I do believe I've failed you.
Adia, I know I've let you down.
Don't you know I've tried so hard
to love you in my way.
It's easy, let it go."

I apologize for the reference. I have no more man cards to give.
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Old 07-26-2009, 12:56 PM   #35 (permalink)
 
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Re: Obaying bad SL orders

*edited useless comment about thread *

The question asked in the topic title is a bad one really.

I also disagree with Ferris on this one. Instead of saying that one shouldn't folow orders if they are reasonable, we should observe the exception that one doesn't have to follow orders if they break the higher order TG rules.

The "reasonable orders" argument leaves the door wide open to "we really needed the sniperkit in this cave".
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Old 07-27-2009, 11:56 AM   #36 (permalink)
 
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Re: Obaying bad SL orders

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigGaayAl View Post
*edited useless comment about thread *

The question asked in the topic title is a bad one really.

I also disagree with Ferris on this one. Instead of saying that one shouldn't folow orders if they are reasonable, we should observe the exception that one doesn't have to follow orders if they break the higher order TG rules.

The "reasonable orders" argument leaves the door wide open to "we really needed the sniperkit in this cave".
Actually Al, the rules state you must follow all SL orders, and reasonable orders from the commander.

But yeah, the reasonable part does have a lot of grey area, like people sitting on MEC Fortress shooting HATs at passing trucks and infantry.
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Old 08-02-2009, 05:19 PM   #37 (permalink)
 
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Re: Obaying bad SL orders

I often disagree with a sl but you should never actually argue them, its like grabbing the steering wheel while someone else is driving and its almost always negative

With a vehicle though especially if you are driving I think that makes you 'captain' of that asset and personally responsible for its continued existence

So your situation is a little more complicated. Its not quite do or die.
Two common mistakes with a tank or apc is not using cover available (smoke even) and not using the gun enough especially for suppression purposes.

If a big vehicle like that dies with more then 90% ammo its criminal imo, people dont target infantry indirectly enough. If we had mk19 then people might catch on, but it works like that now imo

How long can an apc coaxial fire now, its something extreme like 60 secs constant isnt it but thats never really used
That is a constant stream of tracers as well of course


This whole diversion or conflict of interest is why Im not into 3 tanks in one squad. 3 tanks in 3 squads but able to work together is a much greater success imo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berlancic View Post
Make the SL learn the hard way, through death.

If one squad screws up its much clearer whatever they did was crap. The other two avoid that tactic and the third learns a lesson . But combined its much more chaotic and liable to have all three lost at once partly because of the sl determining strategy for all three.
What we see happens is mob tactics, the three supposedly separate assets crowd together but what works much better (and even the taliban do this sometimes apparently) is interlocking arcs of fire

Anyway to cut it short, I'll take the extreme case of a pilot told to use a bad LZ. I would say you use best judgement and land as close as possible to that lz but wherever is safest.
If your co gives an order not to fly later on then so be it, you will just have to fall on your sword


Quote:
I suggest to my SL that we drive INTO a bunker and call for airsupport/AA/ or just wait for the havok to RTB.
Yea great idea. This goes for the entire game, often its better to hold the attention of the enemy while using comms to get someone else to attack them from another direction.
Havoks will just crash themselves often. People clip the razor wire or just land badly, theres always some easy reason for screwing up the major assets tbh

Guerilla tactics are my favourite, the timing of retreat or inaction is a major tactic and you can force the enemy into a major disadvantage in their position because they overextend themselves chasing the kill

Quote:

So do people think i should have ignored my SL and hidden in bunkers or was i right to carry out the suicide run??
Orders were to leave the bunker so you could at least space things out a bit, create two separate targets for the enemy. Use smoke, somehow people think its a negative but really its best to have used all flares and smoke up on every round trip to base.
Also with the bunkers, use the 'lip' provided by the hesco barriers for as long as possible. Maybe take a different route for the same destination, its quite hard for the havoc to target you if keep going behind objects

Just leaving the squad with the asset is a bit extreme, avoid doing that especially with anyone whose squad you want to join later, being sl is an effort. I might do that sometimes especially if its jonny random but better to leave the squad at base if you feel like doing something different, that way they are positioned to reorganise where as desertion in the middle of battle is a bit low
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Last edited by Sabre_Tooth_Tigger; 08-02-2009 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 08-15-2009, 10:55 AM   #38 (permalink)
 
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Re: Obaying bad SL orders

Apart from what the server rules are, there is not much you can do, maybe half the squad will join your mutiny maybe not, chances are the squad will be totally useless. Join another squad or make your own.

YOu will have to live with a bad SL occasionally or a bad co, just like you run into a bad medic bad cas bad tank gunner etc. .
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Old 08-15-2009, 04:32 PM   #39 (permalink)
 
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Re: Obaying bad SL orders

I would say that there are SL's that are not great and there are SL's that are great. That is the hand you are dealt when you join a squad. And just leaving a squad to create your own (once you are in squad) IS TOTALLY NOT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have played with great SL's, New SL's and not so great SL's (and even some real goofballs that don't know what they are doing), BUT I don't leave a squad if I can help, now if I end up being the last person in then yes I leave, but other than that leaving a squad should not be acceptable either. It does not help the team nor the squad.
I am learning now to become a SL, I would like to SL but I know I have to learn from bad SL's and good SL's, once I have I hope my leading a Squad will be pleasant for all in the squad both in the good times and not so good times.

I am sorry I don't agree with leaving a squad to create your own once you have committed, it is NOT realistic.
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