G3: Why you like it, Why you hate it. Or imbetween. - Page 4

Dreadnought · 07-30-2009, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurkishDelight

Silly Engineer people and your math!

3 years Nuclear Engineering at NC State then worked for a bit over a year as a Mechanical Engineer before getting laid off, now gone back to UNC Charlotte to get my Mechanical Engineer degree. People often hate me.

**TurkishDelight** · 07-30-2009, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

3 years Nuclear Engineering at NC State then worked for a bit over a year as a Mechanical Engineer before getting laid off, now gone back to UNC Charlotte to get my Mechanical Engineer degree. People often hate me.

I know....

I don't hate you at all, you put up a bunch of numbers to hypnotize me to sleep!

Plus your job sounds boring

.....................Except maybe the Nuclear part........BOOM!

Still, people don't fly back in the air from a bullet impact. It just doesn't happen unfortunately....

Crombo · 07-30-2009, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurkishDelight

Still, people don't fly back in the air from a bullet impact. It just doesn't happen unfortunately....

Uh, youre a little incorrect there. In the sand you learn a few things, one is when to go out in the open after a friend.

Rule of thumb, "Did he fall backwards or just down?"

A kill shot will make a man just simply drop. A wounding shot will make him fall backwards (its not like the movies but a body does get displaced by the impact of a round) flip or twist.

**TurkishDelight** · 07-30-2009, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crombo

Uh, youre a little incorrect there. In the sand you learn a few things, one is when to go out in the open after a friend.

Rule of thumb, "Did he fall backwards or just down?"

A kill shot will make a man just simply drop. A wounding shot will make him fall backwards (its not like the movies but a body does get displaced by the impact of a round) flip or twist.

I specifically said that people aren't flung in the air like the movies. None of what you describe is anything like that.

Crombo · 07-30-2009, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurkishDelight

I specifically said that people aren't flung in the air like the movies. None of what you describe is anything like that.

I guess

Quote:

flip or twist.

doesnt describe it enough...

and My appologies, these were your two quotes I was basing my reply on.

Quote:

Stopping power does not exist. At all. Not even a little. Also, people are not pushed back when struck by a bullet like in the movies. Physics 101.

also

Physics 101 will tell you that if an object is stopped in motion it will displace its inertia. So in theory, even with out the numbers to help prove the point, stopping power does exist.

**TurkishDelight** · 07-30-2009, 03:33 PM

There are far too many studies on "Stopping Power" for me to accept that it exists in the way people describe it.

If you get hit with a missile projectile, does it transfer some energy? Yes. If that is what you mean mean by "Stopping Power", then I will agree.

Enough to "Stop a person in their tracks?" Absolutely not, unless you are using something like a .50cal.

You can look at any of the disastrous police shootouts in the last century. People get shot with all types of weapons, yet still continue to either fight, or advance on their target. Why aren't they being "stopped"?

Quite a few experts on the matter believe that whether a person drops or not when shot is hugely psychological, not physical.

Crombo · 07-30-2009, 03:45 PM

Turk I think weve hijacked this thread!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurkishDelight

There are far too many studies on "Stopping Power" for me to accept that it exists in the way people describe it.

If you get hit with a missile projectile, does it transfer some energy? Yes. If that is what you mean mean by "Stopping Power", then I will agree.

Enough to "Stop a person in their tracks?" Absolutely not, unless you are using something like a .50cal.

You can look at any of the disastrous police shootouts in the last century. People get shot with all types of weapons, yet still continue to either fight, or advance on their target. Why aren't they being "stopped"?

Quite a few experts on the matter believe that whether a person drops or not when shot is hugely psychological, not physical.

I agree with you on some of that however studies - shmuddies... Scientist can prove that an elephant can balance its self on a bowling ball. Unless youve seen an actual body get hit with an M4, AK or even an M249 round, making a statement like "unless youre using a 50 cal is un realistic. Also in civilian shoot outs, rarely do you find the calibers of the weapons to be above a .45. In military conflicts the rounds are slightly larger so you cant really compare the two.

Dreadnought · 07-30-2009, 04:23 PM

Guys, I'm sure the issue here is, as I said on the last page, whether or not the inertia is fully displaced. These rounds are FMJ and are very rarely stopped by a human body or its armor. These things pierce most Kevlar and while they may be deflected by the plate inserts or advanced ceramics, they are not stopped in a manner that allows their full energy to transfer.

Find me evidence of a round going through 14 guys and stopping in the 15th guy and I'll be able to tell you that on average (1/15) of its energy goes into each guy. However, if the guy is running at you at 12.5 Mph (This equates to a 4:48 minute mile run) and his body fully stops the round, his energy and the bullet will cancel each other out; stopping him instantly from a near sprint.

**Portable.Cougar** · 07-30-2009, 04:29 PM

9mm, 22, 7.62, 5.56

They all hurt. I dont want to be shot by any of them.

Dreadnought · 07-30-2009, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Portable.Cougar

9mm, 22, 7.62, 5.56

They all hurt. I dont want to be shot by any of them.

Whenever people are comparing this sort of thing, I'm reminded of The Simpson's episode where they are back in time and everyone is shooting Derringers. They are bouncing off walls, people, and glass panes.

Crombo · 07-30-2009, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Portable.Cougar

9mm, 22, 7.62, 5.56

They all hurt. I dont want to be shot by any of them.

Amen!

**warlab** · 07-30-2009, 04:47 PM

Whilest not spot on the topic, this was something I found that was kind of interesting: http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2001smallarms/parks2.pdf

Dreadnought · 07-30-2009, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warlab

Whilest not spot on the topic, this was something I found that was kind of interesting: http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2001smallarms/parks2.pdf

This is unacceptable! This thread was at its zenith of topical discussion before this post!

**TurkishDelight** · 07-30-2009, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crombo

Turk I think weve hijacked this thread!!

I agree with you on some of that however studies - shmuddies... Scientist can prove that an elephant can balance its self on a bowling ball. Unless youve seen an actual body get hit with an M4, AK or even an M249 round, making a statement like "unless youre using a 50 cal is un realistic. Also in civilian shoot outs, rarely do you find the calibers of the weapons to be above a .45. In military conflicts the rounds are slightly larger so you cant really compare the two.

I think we have!

I certainly agree with a lot of what you said, I would probably get dropped by a AK no problem! Even if it hit my finger!

Certainly people are effected by bullets. I am not trying to say they aren't. I just disagree with the idea that a .308 is going to make someone fly through the air, or automatically kill them outright.

As far as civilian shootouts, many of them involve high powered rifle rounds with similar/same weapons that the military uses, or goes up against. The data is out there.

At the end of the day, we should probably just stop hijacking the thread

Dreadnought · 07-30-2009, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurkishDelight

At the end of the day, we should probably just stop hijacking the thread

If this is a hijack attempt, it's pretty disgraceful! Your discussion is pretty closely related to the original. To really get this going you need to make it about race, religion, or politics!

(PLEASE DO NOT ACTUALLY DO THIS!)