Dreadnought

I'm curious about the current ins and outs of this class. It is somewhat of an enigma to some, and just frustrating to others. I know many just wish it was changed, but I'm more concerned about how they currently work.

1) From the Manual v.86:

"There is also no penalty for shooting them if they used a weapon, vehicle or their medical equipment in the last 60 seconds."

does this include rocks?

2) I've heard from people that it works if the med pack is merely in your hand, not necessarily used. Is that true?

3) Road kills do not deduct intel i know, but I've been told you must be killed by a bullet. Is that true? What about grenades, C4, etc.

4) If you are wounded under penalty conditions and then bleed out while in a car, or within 60 seconds of healing someone else... Is it when you received the wound that killed you, or when you died?

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|TG-Irr| Dreadnought1984


If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst at once into the sky, that would be like the splendor of the Mighty One --
I am become Death, the shatterer of Worlds.

-J. Robert Oppenheimer, lead scientist of Manhattan Project quoting Bhagavad Gita

Axis_Sniper

You can use rocks as much as you want, there is no penalty for using them.

You can be shot with your medic bag out, even if you're just holding it.

I am not sure about this one. Grenades, C4 will deduce intel I am pretty sure, but running people over I am not too sure about.

Whoever was the last person to shoot you before you bleed out is your killer.

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FROM THE PRIMER:
Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine, regardless of the level of advantage, if any, it gives over the opposing team.

Xbox Live GT: KrunchMastaFlex

snooggums

The current implementation is horrid, the class needs a major change to how they determine the Rules Of Engagement.

The civilian always has a two minute base spawn time, whether he is shot for no reason, trips off a roof, suicides or arrested. It is even longer if he suicides. This is the biggest negative with the class. He also starts drowning when he swims since they used to be able to sit out in the water, although the shotgun being able to arrest solved that issue.

The advantages are that he has a med kit and a rope. If the other team was punished (no the current punishments aren't real punishment) he would be able to sit on a roof and collect intel while only having to worry about shotguns (ranged arrest) and troops coming up to his roof. He can call in mortar strikes without being punished (stupid) but you can mess with one by shooting them in the leg, then finishing them off when they go to heal themselves.

If they changed the complicated ROE they have now (one minute of havingthe med bag out, changing kits etc) and made it so the distance to another insurgent/cache mattered the collaborator/civi would not be useful for being a human shield which the devs don't like and the punishment for blufor could be raised.

See my sig for how to fix the class by splitting the duties between a civilian non-combatant and a collaborator who works with the rest of the insurgent team.

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Buflak

Actually if a civilian uses rocks he becomes a valid target. I just verified this on fallujah west. As soon as he started stoning me i lit him up, no penalty for me.

It makes sense though, rocks can in fact hurt you so it's showing hostile intent i guess.

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Berlancic

Civilian is confusing. Especially for the BluFor.

What I wonder is if you shoot a civilian from a helicopter do you get punished. To me it seems silly how you get that from a helicopter, because you obviously can't see whether he is one. Although I guess then people might say that you need ground-forces to clear that up for you.

It's what they do nowadays with heavy CAS I think, make sure they don't hit civilians, but it's so hard in PR. I think.

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Eavy Gunner

I think the penalities are broken. As in you get no penalities for shooting a civi, regardless of what he's doing.

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snooggums

Maybe he did something punishable within 60 seconds of you shooting him.

That is how it should be, people should be wary of shooting anyone at long range until they can verify whether they are civilian or foe. And if a cache is sighted you shouldn't be punished for killing a civi who is sitting on the cache since the cache itself is a valid target and they are being a 'human shield'.

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Buflak

On the above mentioned fallujah round i shot a civi who was doing apparently nothing because i got -100 team points and a 140 seconds spawntime on my next death.

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snooggums

The punishment is a loss of intel (you can't see or verify), a loss of points (who cares) and extra time to your next spawn, should you die without a revive. Of course if you spend 2 minutes waiting for revive and then give up I don't believe the extra time gets added, it counted towards the time you spent waiting for revive so you won't notice that either.

The only real way to tell is the scoreboard.

re: Buflak
Rocks don't count for ROE, either it is bugged or he did something you did not see which made him a valid target.

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Dreadnought

You can be shot no matter what you're doing; do you mean it's legal then?

That's one thing the manual is clear about, you can run them over with no intel loss.

I wasn't really asking about WHO killed you as much as I was asking did it matter what you were doing WHEN you were wounded, or WHEN you bled out.

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|TG-Irr| Dreadnought1984


If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst at once into the sky, that would be like the splendor of the Mighty One --
I am become Death, the shatterer of Worlds.

-J. Robert Oppenheimer, lead scientist of Manhattan Project quoting Bhagavad Gita

fuzzhead

Also every time you shoot a civilian you cant request kits for 10 minutes

Axis_Sniper

That would be pretty devastating to a careless sniper team. I LOVE IT.

__________________
FROM THE PRIMER:
Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine, regardless of the level of advantage, if any, it gives over the opposing team.

Xbox Live GT: KrunchMastaFlex

Portable.Cougar

Single fav kit / class in the game.

Just wish more care was taken by blufor in regards to not shooting me

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|TG-X|Portable.Cougar

from a Ban Appeal thread- "Thats real life man..... Thats war, not dodging you with a 3ton truck u fcukn fagget "

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fullkontact

From what I understand and have noticed whilst playing;

Medic bag out = Valid target
Rock out = Valid Target
Phone out = Valid Target
Being inside vehicle = Valid Target
Dropping a weapon and switching back to a civvie kit = valid target for 2 mins
Getting out of a vehicle = valid target for 2 mins
binoculars = Valid Target


Pretty much, the ONLY thing you can do to not be a valid target is to be unarmed.

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Dreadnought

This doesn't mesh well with a lot of the other stuff in this thread. Do you have some reference?

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|TG-Irr| Dreadnought1984


If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst at once into the sky, that would be like the splendor of the Mighty One --
I am become Death, the shatterer of Worlds.

-J. Robert Oppenheimer, lead scientist of Manhattan Project quoting Bhagavad Gita