Please revise supporter kick for Squad Leaders - Page 4

**A.WICKENS** · 10-05-2009, 03:50 PM

"The human control allows people who are doing something very important at the time, i.e. flying a chopper or driving a vehicle or squad leading to be safe from kicking".[/QUOTE]

Which would lead to a rush to take up those positions when the server was busy as an exploit of the system. Why is it better to kick some poor grunt who is learning the ropes and hopefully enjoying his first experience of TG then a chopper pilot. Just because of the potential ticket loss? If a non-supporting member is so concerned about possible ticket loss how about they just go grunt if they believe they may be kicked. Well that's not perfect either is it.

Also why is someone's notional ticket value, in the event, not the certainty of them being kicked, more important to the community than someone's personal enjoyment of playing the round. If some poor new guy is ferrying trucks around and being shown the ropes by a regular I would much rather he stayed on the server than some pilot who has anticipated the kick and carried on flying round after round (simultaneously perpetuating the 'asset hogging' problem at the same time).

Yes Sl's potentially being disconnected can have a negative impact on a team, so can loss of internet, PB kicks and your wife shouting at you to get off your ass and stop playing silly games. Life's tough.

Longest non-paying member on the server is the simplest, cleanest and fairest method. You've had your fair go at the trough for free, let somebody else play.

**Superfast** · 10-05-2009, 04:08 PM

The SM money goes into everything here. New games, old games revisited, forums etc. I've seen so many good things dwindle away because it ran out of money for various reasons, so i think we're doing the right thing with the current system.

If you are really serious about your gaming, than that's what the SM is for in my opinion.

Delta*RandyShugart* · 10-05-2009, 05:04 PM

One of the perks of being an SM is being able to get on the PR server when it is full. (same goes for other BF style games) Donating to TG/Becoming a supporting member helps to keep the website and all of the servers which TG runs online. There is no sub form which says "I want my donation to go here _______".

TTP is one of the other servers I know of which also has this script running. I believe there are a few other ones as well.

Side Question:
Wasn't the auto-deploy program put in part to be able to get onto full servers?

**Mix0lydian** · 10-05-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta*RandyShugart*

Side Question:
Wasn't the auto-deploy program put in part to be able to get onto full servers?

i don't believe it work for the TG server because the program does not see the server as "full" at 62 players

Delta*RandyShugart* · 10-05-2009, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mix0lydian

i don't believe it work for the TG server because the program does not see the server as "full" at 62 players

you can edit that info in. I only know because I tried it using my old bf2 name for the TG server a few weeks ago, it worked.

dbzao · 10-05-2009, 05:46 PM

fuzzhead has a stronger opinion about this than I have, I support your decision to have such a system with paid subscribers.

I just think getting important SLs kicked is such a bad blow on teamwork that it does more harm than if you did the suggestion of not kicking full squad's SLs.

A recent example I have is Portable.Cougar getting kicked by this system the other day and deciding to take a break. I immediately lost his squad support and he actually never came back, while he might have stayed to the end of the round if he didn't get kicked.

Yes, people can just rejoin in a few minutes and everything else, but I've seen so many squads disband with good SLs that got kicked because of this script that I thought it would be good to think it over.

**d1sp0sabl3H3r0** · 10-05-2009, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.WICKENS

I am sorry but I am massively against the removal of the sm script. I also believe that many supporters (not necessarily the posters in this particular thread) of the removal of said script are being both naive and disingenous. Without the sm script we would struggle to support the breadth of titles we do at TG, not just PR. That's not insecurity that's realism.

..[remainder of post deleted for brevity - but everyone should really read it ]..

The script has been around for a while and in my opinion is the fairest available option.

My God man! I wish I could +rep you but the SM kick on the rep system won't let me in!!! Very, very nicely stated!

Rudd_medicman · 10-05-2009, 06:05 PM

"Which would lead to a rush to take up those positions when the server was busy as an exploit of the system. Why is it better to kick some poor grunt who is learning the ropes and hopefully enjoying his first experience of TG then a chopper pilot. Just because of the potential ticket loss? If a non-supporting member is so concerned about possible ticket loss how about they just go grunt if they believe they may be kicked. Well that's not perfect either is it."

I'll revise my statement, Drivers/pilots currently engaged in important activities.

If the chopper pilot is on the ground, he's fair game to make a space.

And why would every guy who isn't a squad leader etc a new guy full of innocence?

The Supporting member script shows no mercy to newbies, so that point is mute imo.

And a rush to become squad leaders? oh god, the universe will explode.

If they just get the position to be safe from the kicking, then they probably aren't working for their team and can be kicked because of that by an admin...which is incidentally what TG already do.

**Berlancic** · 10-05-2009, 06:09 PM

It would be good wouldn't it, but there's so many factors that make revising it hard. What if the squad is a lone-wolf squad? Searching for a solution may bring up more problems than what we have now.

**d1sp0sabl3H3r0** · 10-05-2009, 06:14 PM

As an admin on our fair server, I can speak to the following:

I do not want to spend my time watching a list of players to determine who is a sm and who is not, and of those non-sm's:

) who is dead (with a 5 minute man-down timer, who is really dead, anyway?) and who is not
) who is a sl and who is not
) who is a pilot, and if so, is he currently flying
) who is a crewman, and if so, is he currently deployed to the field
) whatever other criteria I need to check

All of this in addition to normal admin duties that are already performed while on the server or just watching CC because I have no life.

No offense, but this is not how I wish to spend my time gaming or my time I spend watching over the server.

**snooggums** · 10-05-2009, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudd_medicman

I'll revise my statement, Drivers/pilots currently engaged in important activities.

If the chopper pilot is on the ground, he's fair game to make a space.

And why would every guy who isn't a squad leader etc a new guy full of innocence?

The Supporting member script shows no mercy to newbies, so that point is mute imo.

And a rush to become squad leaders? oh god, the universe will explode.

If they just get the position to be safe from the kicking, then they probably aren't working for their team and can be kicked because of that by an admin...which is incidentally what TG already do.

Having to figure out who is busy doing what before kicking draws the admins from their very important role of also being TG members who work with their team for the duration of making a complex and quickly annoying decision about who to kick. No matter who they end up kicking, someone will be inconvenienced and people don't get as bitter about being kicked when it is automatic, saving them even more time. We do like playing with the admins instead of having them sit in a corner trying to figure out whose chopper is in the air.

If they take the SL position at the beginning of the round, we have to wait for the round to start before finding out they are not team players, then the admins will have to deal with that and the team is out the 3 minute prep time. If I wanted to make a squad and I loaded slow I may have to join one of theirs simply because they didn't want to get kicked and have to wait for them to get kicked manually, convince the squad to leave and rejoin to put me in the SL spot and so on. The script shows no mercy to anyone other than SMs, and allows newbies the same chance at playing time as everyone else so it's not like they are getting the shaft worse than anyone else.

I'm not an admin, but I sure request their services on what I feel to be a regular basis. I'd like to keep that short and sweet like it is now so that I can play with them as well as see their witty warning comments.

**GoreZiad** · 10-05-2009, 06:43 PM

I just got kicked to make room for a supporter so I guess my subscription just ran out. Gonna get a new one as soon as I can because it's pretty annoying

fuzzhead · 10-05-2009, 06:49 PM

Yeap fair points, I still disagree that the current system cannot be altered, but thats okay.

I like that idea that only dead players are booted (longest player in), and if none are dead it moves onto live players with longest time. I dont see any major exploits to this. Sure, if you die alot you will be kicked more often, but thats all the more incentive not to die

I usually stop playing when Im kicked, and I know others will do the same. Also, I've seen many times where a tank battle is decided based on supporting members, if your up against supporting members and your squad has alot of non SM's, all it takes is 1 guy to get booted in middle of combat and your down a gun, usally happening at worse moments :P

/rant on

Also what really gets me the most on SM kick script, is the guys who got the server running: seeding it, squad leading, playing when its not that fun but knowing that by being there they will attract more players, helping the new players, introducing them to the mod, explaining stuff, being generally friendly and inviting and showing how the TG community is mean to be... these are the guys you kick first since they have been in the longest. So really, I used to do this all the time, but now I never go into TG unless its near full, because I know if I try to seed the server I will just be punished for doing it once it finally fills up. It's happen 1 too many time that I join the server when its near empty, get a nice solid group of players and even some new guys and having a great time, then what you know, it passes that peak amount of players needed, and we got all these SM's joining that didnt want to join when it was 10/62 but now that its near full, sure they will come in and take someones spot. Now that your kicked, and the server gameplay (which you helped to establish) is going great, its difficult or impossible to get back in, so you feel like whats the point of seeding this server if they just gonna punish me for it.
I know other non-SM are aware of this fate too, and probably a contributing reason why the server seems so empty alot of times during non-peak hours... if theres no SM around to seed, then no other good non-SM leaders will want to join the server and get it going only to get punished. If more and more SM's are getting their memberships simply to get a slot on the server rather than actually contribute to the community, than we see less seeders since these guys are unlikely to seed because they are the very impatient ones that bought SM so they could always have a spot, and just want to play and dont want to take time to build up the server pop. I'm sure its only a minority of supporting members that are impatient types that don't contribute, but there is no system in place to keep these players in check, and in fact the current system encourages these types. Well, they are financially supporting your community, certainly, but when the gameplay turns to crap on the server, they will be the first ones moving on to greener pastures, instead of helping new guys out etc and building the community back up. Sorry just my rant on this system, why I think the system is flawed and why I respectfully refuse to pay for a supporting membership until a change is made. I know I'm just one voice, and by all means TG has been hugely succesful in PR and other games, so obviously this system does work.. but still I just see this fundamental flaw in it that I wanted to speak about. Its nothing personal, just getting off my chest, and an explanation as to why after all these years of playing here you dont see me in an IHS or as a SM. Also being a PR developer means a large majority of my time dedicated to this mod is creating and testing it, rather than playing, so isolating myself to only playing at TG for me is not an ideal way to interact with the mod community as whole.

/rant off

And of course the classic instance of helicopter pilots getting kicked and crashing horribly.

This kind of indiscriminate kicking DOES effect the outcome of the round, losing precious tickets as well as key figures in a teams lineup. So instead of rounds being decided based on skill, tactics and teamwork, its decided on which team has more paying members and which side lost more tickets cause they had non SM's kicked / abandoning assets /etc :/

If this is felt to be the only option to maintain the integrity and financial security of the server, then so be it, but I see other servers without this setup and they seem to be able to maintain a steady population, maybe not as good quality play, but I dont think the quality of play on TG is because of the SM kick, like dbzao said I think the SM kick does more harm than good to quality of play.

Anyways I dont want to cause drama in this thread, I said my thing, db offered a suggestion, if admins feel the current system is ideal and none of the offered suggestions are better than current, than I guess that brings conclusion to the discussion.

**Wookie** · 10-05-2009, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzzhead

...but I see other servers without this setup and they seem to be able to maintain a steady population, maybe not as good quality play,

That is the best reason to go out and become a SM.....after all the quality of the gameplay at TG is what keeps everyone coming back.

It and it's perks is what keeps the community growing and strong.....

The current system is both simple and fair and once someone understands it they get over it and get back on the server.

...GAME ON!

**Jeepo_SAS** · 10-05-2009, 08:10 PM

Lots of plus rep being flung around now!

But in all seriousness, I see where people are going, and I realise that it can be perceived as unfair, but surely it boils down to this:

If someone is willing to pay for a product, they get the service.

That is not me having a go at people who don't, in no way am I doing that, as I am skint all to hell at the minute, but I still support as Asch has to feed his kid, and he is near retirement and needs a nest egg!

That btw was a joke, in thinking I want to point that out specificially so I don't get jumped on a and beaten up later with multi-quote posters....

If you are unwilling to pay, that is fine. I know LOTS of amazing teamplayers who are no SM's, and is it a shame they get kicked? But do I believe we should change the system? Perhaps, but not to the detriment of those who put there own cash on the table. If the server is 62/64, you better be damn sure I expect to get in and kick SOMEBODY when I double click.....