No rally point feedback thread - PR .874b

[d1sp0sabl3H3r0]

I will open this thread tomorrow after the changes are put into place. In the meantime, PLEASE READ THIS POST!


EDIT: Changes are in place and the thread is now open.


Official feedback thread on RealityMod.com

[RangeRover21]

I am looking forward to play on TG while the "no RP" rule applies.

I would love to see RP's available only for Talibans, Iraqi insurgents and , perhaps, Chechens. Since they use guerilla tactics and is a guerilla force in real life.

[Mix0lydian]

The team that does not have a dedicated transport OR logistics/FOB squad WILL get steam rolled by the team that does have 1 or 2 of these squads, it's as simple as that.

POSITIVE gameplay changes I expect to see, some mentioned already and some not:

-Defending will become way easier and possibly more fun and satisfying; once you have killed a wave, you know that the players from that wave are probably not going to be back within next minute at least-->giving defending squads more time to revive, prepare for the next wave and gain a ticket advantage from good defending.

-more dedicated Transport APC/Logistics squads

-more squads created to counter & stop enemy trans/logi squads: more ambush squads (could be good or bad thing by taking players off the front line) and increased importance of building/manning AA+MANPADs on air assault maps (Muttrah, Jabal, 'Cuda, etc) to prevent enemy reinforcements.

-when assaulting, squads will be forced to stick together with other squads as mini-platoons and work closer with other team assets like armor in order overwhelm FOB's and defensive positions.

-SL's can no longer take a logi truck from main with one other sm and drop a rally and have 4 guys instantly appear.

-^Likewise, say you are defending the bunkers on kashan and have your Firebase destroyed/overrun/whatever. Defensive squads that have members killed can no longer simply drop a rally and spawn their own squad's reinforcements. They MUST rely on the rest of the team to bring reinforcements or build a FOB at their position ASAP, or risk losing the position and the flag.


NEGATIVES:
-increased reliance on Transport squads, let me explain. Many times there are not enough experienced players/SL's-even on the TG server - to provide competant leadership for both the infantry and asset squads-->you can't have great APC trans/helo trans squads every round.....the situation where the entire team is stuck at main or on the carrier could become a common sight.

-the "trickle" of players from the RP's may just carry over to a "flood" from Firebases, instead of the "waves" or "units" moving together like the DEVs hoped for. Instead of squad tard rushes, we get whole team tard rushes. Well-placed Firebases will be very hard to neutralize if the entire enemy team continually spawns from it. Imagine swarming chechens just pouring from some firebase 150 meters away from a Russian flag and simply rushing with little thought to tactics or teamwork ( this actually happens a lot already ). Well, I guesss it's still teamwork, just really dumb teamwork...

Suggestions?

-APCs (not IFV's) and transport helicopters spawn times should be reduced to 10 min on EVERY map

-remove ticket loss from APCs and Hueys, reduce IFV ticket loss to 5= their value to the fight will be tremendously more important now and should not have to be simulated through ticket loss. You'll probably kill 8 tickets anyway since they will now more likely be carrying peeps...

-increase the Overrun radius for FOBs to 100-150 meters and require 4 enemy soldiers to be within that radius in order overrun.

-increase the Overrun timer to 4-5 minutes after last 4 enemies have left the radius or been killed before FOBs become spawnable again



That's all for now, can't wait to try it out this weekend...

[orpal]

Let's try it out.


I like the idea I just think it needs some tweaking regarding smaller maps with steep knolls and mountains. So give me 4 talibans on Korgenal and I can IED the hell of the road making it impossible to deploy any spawnpoint for USMC.
My idea-bring back the chopper with crate drop compatibility and redo the map so it spawns in a safe spot out of talibans reach. I know we can't relay on pilots alone, but since PR tends to lean more and more to teamwork, I think training pilots how to do their job is a part of evolution. Like campaign in a game, with more and more stuff on our disposal, you get more and more responsibilities.

Think out of the box.


We're heading into right direction though.

[warlab]

Looking forward to seeing how this changes game play.
Being that its only a test I hope we can run all the maps thru the rotation rather than leave a few out. I for one would love to see what this does to Kashan.

Im proud our community here was selected by the PR folks to run a test server. Thanks for our Admins for setting this all up.

[d1sp0sabl3H3r0]

Originally Posted by orpal

So give me 4 talibans on Korgenal and I can IED the hell of the road making it impossible to deploy any spawnpoint for USMC.

To this point, please be prepared to have our baserape rules modified for insurgency to not allow insurgents/taliban to baserape the BluFor. This is not the case now, but we'll see if it becomes necessary as the test period progresses.

[Mix0lydian]

Originally Posted by warlab

Im proud our community here was selected by the PR folks to run a test server. Thanks for our Admins for setting this all up.

I am proud, as well. I have had a few good rounds on TnT before, so it seems like the DEVs chose servers with better than average teamplay.

Just worried that if this is included in an official update, other players on the majority of PR servers will not adapt as quickly or welcome the change as well as we here might welcome it.

[orpal]

I agree, with new stuff added we need to change some old stuff as well. Like fitting a new engine in an old care. You can't drive it on old suspension...

[snooggums]

Originally Posted by Mix0lydian

-the "trickle" of players from the RP's may just carry over to a "flood" from Firebases, instead of the "waves" or "units" moving together like the DEVs hoped for. Instead of squad tard rushes, we get whole team tard rushes. Well-placed Firebases will be very hard to neutralize if the entire enemy team continually spawns from it. Imagine swarming chechens just pouring from some firebase 150 meters away from a Russian flag and simply rushing with little thought to tactics or teamwork ( this actually happens a lot already ). Well, I guesss it's still teamwork, just really dumb teamwork...

That was my first comment on the thread that was removed from the PR site Of course the tard rush will come from one side instead of some hidden back rally so maybe it will be better than it is now.

Suggestions?

-APCs (not IFV's) and transport helicopters spawn times should be reduced to 10 min on EVERY map

-remove ticket loss from APCs and Hueys, reduce IFV ticket loss to 5= their value to the fight will be tremendously more important now and should not have to be simulated through ticket loss. You'll probably kill 8 tickets anyway since they will now more likely be carrying peeps...

-increase the Overrun timer to 4-5 minutes after last 4 enemies have left the radius or been killed before FOBs become spawnable again

I approve of all of these. I really want the vehicle spawns to be reduced in time and transport vehicles to be reduced in cost. A full APC with TOW is worth 18 unrevivable tickets! No one wants to ride in iron coffins, and the high ticket cost is even worse.

I forsee games lasting a lot longer and being a lot less exciting, although that would be more realistic. Maybe a ticket reduction would be in order.

[d1sp0sabl3H3r0]

Two of the biggest impacts I expect to see with this change:

1) Korengal becomes unplayable for BluFor.

The inability to set a rally point on this map is going to spell the end of it I'm afraid. With the US main bases both on the low ground and with narrow roads that are going to be complete death traps for any vehicles, I fear that the fun factor on this map is going to be reduced to 0 very quickly. The Taliban do not lose any of their spawn points with this change, meaning they can easily surround the US team in their main base and the map turns from Insurgency game play to Seige warfare. In addition to the mapper placed Taliban spawns, they will be able to deploy 5 hideouts PLUS an additional two random spawns that they will get from their caches. I see this map as being impossible to win for the US team with this change. I hope I'm wrong, but considering how it is already a rape-fest with the ability to place rally points, it will be even worse without them.

2) Kashan becomes horrendously difficult for infantry.

Obvious. Lots of open terrain with minimal cover except for some ditches coupled with the incredible zoom capabilities of the armor spells disaster for any team that is not on the ball. This change could turn the bunkers into a huge 400m+ firefight between North and South (which could be fun) or a pure steam roll. We'll see how it plays out.

[snooggums]

Originally Posted by d1sp0sabl3H3r0

Two of the biggest impacts I expect to see with this change:

1) Korengal becomes unplayable for BluFor.

The inability to set a rally point on this map is going to spell the end of it I'm afraid. With the US main bases both on the low ground and with narrow roads that are going to be complete death traps for any vehicles, I fear that the fun factor on this map is going to be reduced to 0 very quickly. The Taliban do not lose any of their spawn points with this change, meaning they can easily surround the US team in their main base and the map turns from Insurgency game play to Seige warfare. In addition to the mapper placed Taliban spawns, they will be able to deploy 5 hideouts PLUS an additional two random spawns that they will get from their caches. I see this map as being impossible to win for the US team with this change. I hope I'm wrong, but considering how it is already a rape-fest with the ability to place rally points, it will be even worse without them.

The Taliban not needing crates to build their Hideouts makes them even more flexible. A removal of the crates requirement altogether for FOBs maybe necessary (but keep the crate requirement for add ons).

2) Kashan becomes horrendously difficult for infantry.

Obvious. Lots of open terrain with minimal cover except for some ditches coupled with the incredible zoom capabilities of the armor spells disaster for any team that is not on the ball. This change could turn the bunkers into a huge 400m+ firefight between North and South (which could be fun) or a pure steam roll. We'll see how it plays out.

Don't forget the easy air spotting from the UAV for the dark FOBs on very light terrain

[Mix0lydian]

3) Qwai will be even more of stalemate, unless they return the ability to repair bridges, with less ability to sustain assaults on the enemy's side of the river.
However, this could end up being quite fun since the team that controls the bridge(s) controls the offensive momentum of the round. I personally love fighting for strategic points that are not flags.

[snooggums]

Originally Posted by Mix0lydian

3) Qwai will be even more of stalemate, unless they return the ability to repair bridges, with less ability to sustain assaults on the enemy's side of the river.
However, this could end up being quite fun since the team that controls the bridge(s) controls the offensive momentum of the round. I personally love fighting for strategic points that are not flags.

Qwai will still come down to the land bridge. All it takes is a single arty strike or sneaky sapper to undermine any attempt to defend a bridge. The teams are just too small to place men on multiple defensive locations and still try to make an offensive move.

___________________________

*I'm sure I sound negative about this change but I'm all for it. The change is pretty big and will affect other game play elements and may not work on existing maps so I'm just voicing my worries ahead of time so people that read will have it in mind when playing to see if I am wrong as I will only be able to play a map or two a day while the beta is going on except this Saturday.

[AlmightyLion]

I liked the idea first, but Mix did bring up some good points - I will be looking forward to see how it turns out.

Another good point was reducing the ticket and spawn-time on transport choppers and apcs.


Instead of removing the rallys completely:
*Set a timer between dropping new rallys (If you drop a rally, you need to wait a certain time before dropping another one) , to encourage tactical thinking.
*Increase the timer when you can drop a new rally after it was taken down, to prevent people spawn in when you are defending in a building (like kashan bunkers) And make it harder to recover from a situation when you lost most of your SQ and your rally. This would make people to really fall back to recover, regroup and face the the obvious- they lost that fight.

I think it would make people use the FB more and appreciate them more, without removing the good aspect of the rally.

3. Raised the maximum number of Forward Outposts available from 4 to 5.
4. Forward Outposts can now be built with one supply crate instead of two (all other deployables still need two).

I like that.

[GoreZiad]

I'm fed up with squadmembers trickling off one by one every 30 seconds. I'm sick of people not waiting for the squad to regroup before moving. Firebase defences will now hopefully be used like they should as well, instead of being huge empty indicators as to where to find a firebase. Though people can move out alone from a firebase like they can from a rally. Maybe increase the RP overrun time to 5-10 minutes instead of removing rallies.