Qinling vs. Kashan: Why Kashan is Better

**Startrekern** · 11-19-2009 09:25 PM

Qinling:

Both ATTACK CHOPPERS and JETS are around in one version, plus transports and a scout, taking more players up for air squads. Too many air assets here. British don't get a scout bird with guns on it anyway.

Not enough flags/points of interest + AASv3 = Fail. Qinling was not designed for AASv3, and should use v2. There should be other points of interest throughout the map like the villages are on Kashan. Maybe a fortress here, a village there, and have them set flags. As it is, people have no real place to fight over and hills seem meaningless and so massive that infantry combat is difficult. Qinling is just an assload of trees and the 'real points of interest' almost NEVER see infantry combat (Temple, village, power station)

Kashan:

Only jets, or only attack helicopters. Air assets are limited and balanced. Both teams get an equal number of balanced armor and air assets, and both littlebirds have guns.

Set flags/points of interest. Flags are set in specific locations, leading to fights being over those locations. Sure, gameplay is slightly more repetitive, but it makes more sense than random flags being generated on hills or random patches of desert in the middle of nowhere. There are actually villages to hide in, structures, rocks, oilfields -- things that make the map interesting.

**fullkontact** · 11-19-2009 09:30 PM

I personally prefer Qinling but then I like it because it's easier for the infantry so you can actually use tactics without an APC from 600m's bringing down your whole squad.

I also feel that Qinling is alot more diverse giving a more fun battleground rather than Kashan's "Sand... sand... sand... oh look a.. oh.. sand.."

But that's my opinion

**BigGaayAl** · 11-19-2009 09:31 PM

Qinling: Trees only render at about 20% volume thus exposing all infantry to rape. This map should have been axed or given proper trees 3 versions ago. They did make new tree models in the newer maps, that perform better. They axed so many half decent maps. Time to axe this one.

Kashan... Well empty desert beats dysfunctional trees.

**Bandaid** · 11-19-2009 09:56 PM

I still love Kashan 16. Had a really good game on it just about an hour ago.

**Startrekern** · 11-19-2009 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by Bandaid

I still love Kashan 16. Had a really good game on it just about an hour ago.

Same. That, however, is STILL because there are focus points for infantry combat. On Qinling, there simply are not/they are not utilized.

**MarineSeaknight** · 11-19-2009 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by BigGaayAl

Qinling: Trees only render at about 20% volume thus exposing all infantry to rape. This map should have been axed or given proper trees 3 versions ago. They did make new tree models in the newer maps, that perform better. They axed so many half decent maps. Time to axe this one.

Kashan... Well empty desert beats dysfunctional trees.

They won't get rid of it because it's still decent and it's Rhino's baby.

**Waldo_II** · 11-19-2009 10:12 PM

Until this thread, I had never heard of anyone who appreciated Qinling more than Kashan.

Flying in Qinling is terrible because the sky is pure white, same color as the ground when you are above the view distance. Runways are also far better on Kashan because there aren't bigass trees up in your grill and you have a proper amount of it. And you never have to worry about using a J-10.

Kashan also has more variety in it. It has hills, villages, valleys, outposts, awesome bunker complexes, whereas on Qinling, it has a mine, one village, a ****load of cloned green hills, two small outposts, and a lake. Which nobody ever uses. The trees fail at rendering, too, so it may as well be plain. The prettiest part of the map, the river, is never seen.

**d1sp0sabl3H3r0** · 11-20-2009 12:18 AM

Nice to see we're right on top of the map releases.

**thegreatnardini** · 11-20-2009 12:24 AM

Quinling is a nightmare for infantry, period. At least on Kashan you have a chance of digging in and defending without having to worry about getting the crap blown out of you without any chance of retaliation. That's why I am disliking some of the changes they've made to aircraft in the last release: bombs should not be able to penetrate the bunkers and the F-16/Mig should be for air superiority only, and should lack ground-attack capabilities.

Quinling is a mess with hardly anywhere for the infantry to hide, far too many vehicles, white sky so you can't see your aircraft HUD, the horrendous J-10, etc...

It is awesome that a game like PR can effectively have combined-arms gameplay, but on some maps it's just too much...

**mat552** · 11-20-2009 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by thegreatnardini

Quinling is a nightmare for infantry, period. At least on Kashan you have a chance of digging in and defending without having to worry about getting the crap blown out of you without any chance of retaliation. That's why I am disliking some of the changes they've made to aircraft in the last release: bombs should not be able to penetrate the bunkers and the F-16/Mig should be for air superiority only, and should lack ground-attack capabilities.

The staying power of the AirSup craft for air to ground operations is fractionally useful, more of a pinch hitter than a star. 2 bombs. No effective missiles or guns. I was unaware that the bunkers were penetrable by those bombs, normally they just shrug them off, like statics have a tendency to do. Once in a blue moon, I've been able to put one down the throat of the stairs to the top of the bunker, and those are always memorable rounds, but they are so rare.

Originally Posted by thegreatnardini

Quinling is a mess with hardly anywhere for the infantry to hide, far too many vehicles, white sky so you can't see your aircraft HUD, the horrendous J-10, etc...

The infantry merely need to sit still to become invisible from the air on Qinling. As a pilot, I have little-no chance of spotting infantry (camo on forest) like I do on Kashan (black dots, light brown desert)

Qinling is a challenge for me, I can't read my HUD, there is frequently lag when my client draws the ground for an attack run, the runways are about 250ft short of what they need to be and placed at absurd levels so that I have to come in at tree top level instead of a correct slope. Those same trees are always in the way to intercept a bomb or a view of a laze.

Challenges are fun, but...challenging. Both on my nerves and my skills.

In the end, I like them equally, for different reasons. Kashan is to blow off steam, rise into the wild blue yonder and deliver many kinds of hurt at the behest of the leaders on the ground. Qinling is to take my skills as a pilot to their outer limits and stretch them.

**thegreatnardini** · 11-20-2009 12:53 AM

The bombs on Kashan will "penetrate" the bunkers and kill pretty much anyone inside. Basically there is absolutely nowhere for infantry to hide on the 64 version of Kashan (and one of the reasons it hasn't been on the server much lately).

CAS may not be able to see infantry, but if the team has any half-decent spotters that completely negates that. IMO the F-16/Migs shouldn't be attacking ground troops, that's what the A-10 and Su's are for. There is plenty for them to do, such as shooting down any choppers or other jets which should take priority anyways for those craft. If you have a good pilot keeping the skies clear you'd be surprised how it makes a world of difference, sometimes more-so than a great CAS pilot.

**Namebot** · 11-20-2009 01:07 AM

The way those maps are set up, infantry plays a much more secondary and "squishy" role to the assets. Extra sets of eyes, ears, and lazers.

I don't particularly like either one, but there are no other alternatives with large scale battles.

**Ferris Bueller** · 11-20-2009 01:12 AM

I'll break them down point by point, but I dont particularly like either one.
Qinling:
Pros:
Highly varied terrain
Lots of attack possibilities
Very interesting aerial battles
Cons:
90% of the map goes unused on almost every game
Bad terrain rendering and effects
Prone to asset-whoring
Infantry has trouble getting around on foot in a lot of places.
Tanks roll uphill.

Kashan:
Pros:
Wide open for engagements
No negative terrain effects (cause theres nothing to render but sand)
Asset heavy, but not OVERLY asset heavy.
Cons:
On the 32/64p maps, infantry have severely limited mobility due to assets that can smoke them in the open from 1000m
The focus is ALWAYS on the bunker complex for 99% of every round.
Air to ground weapons greatly exceed the range of ground to air weapons, so a good pilot can literally live forever if he stays at high altitude and just rains fire.

Bottom line: they were both nice maps...when they came out. It was the novelty of the first "big" maps. But with recent changes, they tend to become largely unplayable...and boring. Doing the same exact thing every time you play a map because its the ONLY way a map can be played is a bit boring.

**Jeepo_SAS** · 11-20-2009 01:45 AM

I love Quinling, totally love it. More Quinling!

**O=T-M-A-N=O** · 11-20-2009 03:18 AM

Originally Posted by Namebot

The way those maps are set up, infantry plays a much more secondary and "squishy" role to the assets. Extra sets of eyes, ears, and lazers.

I don't particularly like either one, but there are no other alternatives with large scale battles.

Yes, finding maps for internal scrims is not that easy, as it is good to do a big one. Muttrah was interesting last time, but not optimal either. I think Kozelsk could be fun, but it also may end up being unbalanced for other reasons.

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