Project Reality Mod v0.4 First Impressions - Page 6

Gahlas · 11-15-2006, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick_the_new_guy

We are better understaning why in the military they have green/ yellow/ and red firing conditions.

If your a SL and friendlies are to the southwest and close, put the squad on red conditions here.

If friendliess are to southwest and away a wee bit, put the squad on yellow.

If no friendlies are around put the team on green, team kills inside a squad should be rare.

Me thinks the Mod will bring about the extingsion of the Lone Wolf who just walks around and stuff.

This guy is so dead. Feel free to call me cold hearted, but if players can't stay behind the lines and desire to wonder off, then i do not morn their loss.

I pray to the gods above and below that the tags stay the same. You know why? Because the gameplay is built to be a sim. Running and gunning are becomeing obsolete.

not seeing friednly tags is just another task the squad leader will need to add their responsiblities. Like I said, if no one is around and your defending, put the squad on green (fire at anyting out there in the bush) etc.

Guys, just pretend it is real life and your be fine.

We just need to play more mechinzed and it will be good gameplay.

Not to hijack this thread but I really feel like this is the perfect opportunity/mod to post this.

I am just using your post as an example, nothing personal. I think quite a few people are thinking like this. I seem to have noticed a lot more of it lately. People think that over elaborate tactics are the key to ultimate victory.

Here is an example of this I made up. *All of the begining players in this follow all of the general rules of advancement and are great tactical players*

Squad Leader: Ok, guys, lets do it big this round. I have the perfect plan.
We are going to move to the bridge flag and see if we can hold that.
Lets let the other squads move out and see that they don't go there first.
*Wait 30 seconds*
Ok, it looks like no one is going there. Lets split into fire teams.
Fire team one will be Guy 1 guy 2 and guy 3.
I will lead fire team 2. Guy 5 and 6 are with me.
I want Guy 1 to lead fire team 1. give kit load outs and lead your men.
Guy 1: Ok
Squad Leader: Fire team 1; come up through the southwest and use that brush for cover. Advance slowly and wait for us to get into position.
Team 2 will come in from the North East. We will follow along the ravine.
When we get in position, team 1 will begin to draw the enemy fire and we will move in. I want guy 2 from team one to grab the tank if you can.
Everyone got that?
*Pause*
Sure...
Ok, give your kit load outs.
Guy 1: I want 2 as medic and 3 as AT, I will be assault.
Squad leader: Ok, guy 5 I want you as medic and 6 as spec ops. Spawn in.
*Everyone Spawns*
*By this time, the game has been going on for a minute and a half, the enemies have already taken the bridge and set up a defense*
Guy 2 spawns assault and guy 6 spawns medic.
Ok, lets move out.
Guy 3: Wait, whose team am I in?
SL: Uh, 2 I think.
Guy 5: No, it was 1.
Sl: Oh, ok
*Guy 5 wanders off with team one*
All right, make your approaches.
*Team 1 moves directly in south in cover but in the firing range of a LMG*
*Team 2 moves in from the west*
Ok, Team 1 in place.
Roger, move in.
*Team 1 begins advancing*
*Santa walks up as team 1 spends 30 seconds crawling toward the flag and stabs 2 members*
*The LMG opens fire and kills 2 more guys*
* Robocop runs up and shoots the remaining 2 in the face*
*Five minutes passed by and our heroes never even got in the perimeter*
SL: Ok guys; let’s try that again.
*Guy 2 leaves and guy 5 goes AFk*
*A new guy joins*
New guy: What are we doing?
*The plan fails*

Sorry about that, I know some people will hate me for saying what need to be said but man, it IS a video game. There will never be this perfect, ultimate, uber tactical situation achieved. There will never be a mod made that will achieve this. You can't place enough realism in a mod to achieve this.
There will always be hard chargers that will get in there and get it done by running and gunning. You will never get people to use these elaborate tactics. New people will join, people will not have the patience to sit through the hundreds of hours to prefect it. Then if they did, someone would drive up in a tank and blast it all away.

Remeber Deveran? He used to be the single handed assault squad for the team and got it done. Didn't TG lose a scrim because the other team just charged hard back when we had the vanilla scrims?

Personally, I have no problem when my squad leader uses these super duper tactics. I like it, but the fact is, this is a video game and if you treat it like real life, you will not win because it is not real life.

Even in tacmod, we could never get that level of tacticalness. (Even though tacmod is the greatest Internet gaming experience) PR mod can't do it, nothing can.

I am really sorry for posting this, looking at it I wish I would not have. Sorry, I guess it needs its own tread or to be deleted. Sorry

Joebar · 11-15-2006, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvin

RAWR @ not being able to determine where bullets are entering my body me from >.<

Yeah, that's pretty tricky also. And again, in reality, I'd know when I got shot in my left arm that the gunner was to my left.

Overall I'm liking this mod. Takes a good squad and squad leader to make it enjoyable tho!

**Grunt 70** · 11-15-2006, 09:47 PM

Great post Gahlas though I don't see the connection to the quote. Please spell it out. Follow the 1st around on any given night and you'll see we have more than our share of miscues.

I've been the victim of the kind of tactical failure you spell out many times. I can't count the number of times I've been wiped out because of slow forming tactics or a plan that was ill conceived and mis delivered.

For me, every time I've been wiped out trying to carry off a complicated or unwise stratagy there are is an equal amount of glorified success. Moments of satisfying tactical excellence that are the core of the immersive experience I seek when I strap on these old headphones. Here at TG I know people will believe me whan I say I find the most enjoyment in this crazy virtual battlefield while doing things like squad level bounding overwatch or playing medic the way it should be played. It sounds like you even agree with me as you end your post.

The great thing about BF2 here at TG is that both types of approaches are more than welcome...(within some reason of course)

Gahlas · 11-15-2006, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grunt 70

Great post Gahlas though I don't see the connection to the quote. Please spell it out. Follow the 1st around on any given night and you'll see we have more than our share of miscues.

I've been the victim of the kind of tactical failure you spell out many times. I can't count the number of times I've been wiped out because of slow forming tactics or a plan that was ill conceived and mis delivered.

For me, every time I've been wiped out trying to carry off a complicated or unwise stratagy there are is an equal amount of glorified success. Moments of satisfying tactical excellence that are the core of the immersive experience I seek when I strap on these old headphones. Here at TG I know people will believe me whan I say I find the most enjoyment in this crazy virtual battlefield while doing things like squad level bounding overwatch or playing medic the way it should be played. It sounds like you even agree with me as you end your post.

The great thing about BF2 here at TG is that both types of approaches are more than welcome...(within some reason of course)

Sorry about the poor corelation there. I am terrible at expressing myself through writing

Rick was describing the use of green yellow and red for fire control. I remember reading the same thing in the SOPs when I started playing here but I never once saw it used.

Also he said

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick_the_new_guy

Guys, just pretend it is real life and your be fine.

Which I disagree with. I think that will get you a loss and not a win. I don't think there is a mod out there where this applies. Video games and this mod are not at the point where/I don't think will ever be where this can happen. That is what makes it a video game. If you want real life you have to live it

You are right, I do like trying out all of the tactics people come up with. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't and sometime you just have to laugh.
The SL explains an elaborate plan for two minutes then you get in a chopper and the pilot runs into a tree 15 seconds after take off and kills the whole squad.

Getting back to the mod, it opens up a whole lot of opportunities for more stratagy which makes TG a great place for them.

SmokingTarpan · 11-15-2006, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beatnik

Hmm. Perhaps we weren't sitting there next to it long enough. I'll have to experiment with it some more and see. Thanks for the quotage though Rick.

I had santa standing over the ammo pack for a long time last night, and another guy (btrapp) on an earlier map that was riding the ammo bag for no less than a minute without getting a resupply. Something seems quirky.

Santa · 11-15-2006, 11:51 PM

Ive had that VOIP delay in vanilla. I think its an extremely rare bug. Long time ago i was in bommandos squad and kept hearing things several minutes after they happened. It was pretty damn hillarious to hear Bommando screaming at us to do something when we werent even being attacked at the moment.

Rick_the_new_guy · 11-16-2006, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santa

Ive had that VOIP delay in vanilla. I think its an extremely rare bug. Long time ago i was in bommandos squad and kept hearing things several minutes after they happened. It was pretty damn hillarious to hear Bommando screaming at us to do something when we werent even being attacked at the moment.

lol, and great quotes in the sig.

Rick_the_new_guy · 11-16-2006, 08:33 AM

Just got off the TG server and D Plant 32 player was on.

I was able to get a good feel for the air vehicles.

Big thumbs up.

I found them to be very responsive. Seems like the jets and Gunships do not have the same sick awsome turning speeds though. The jet decreased in turning ablitly more than the gunship. Or it could have been the fact that I never flu those jets before.

Having some experience in these vehicles from my single player months before going online, my favorite thumbs up is that the Gunship pilot can expend their 24 rockets all at one time and that the accuracy of the rockets are much much better. Must be because they move a lot faster.
The gattling gun seems to have more splash so that is good.

The Mig is gone for the Chinese and they have a bomber like fighter. has five bombs and no rockets I think.

The best part about the jets is that they rearm fairly liberaly (Flying by). I am glad the PR team did this because without doing this the assets will not get used on account of the sick small run way (China)

The ultimate equalizer from these things being over powered is that their respawn time is around 4-5 minutes (same for any air vehicle). So ever time a grunt sees a jet or gunship go down report it up the chain of command because this will allow the team to work under less pressure.

A sick awsome feature is that now the arty can be destroyed by something other than C4. Indeed, the arty comes even up over the pilot screen. It may take a couple of runs to take them down though, they are fairly tuff.

however, I am sure a gunship can finish them off with ease in less than a minute.

This map also has no UCBs, this would make for some interesting gaming.

With our bleed system it may not work out well with 24 players per side.

six flags. Four flags to bleed.

1. Keep your main head quaters.
2. Keep a flag adjacent to your H.Q.
3. Try to get two other flags.

With a gunships and jets this set-up would the defense a little thin to when holding the four flags.

5 man squads to defend four flags. That is 20 players. two for gunship and one for jets, that is 23. one CO, that is 24.

I guess it would work out o.k. I certainly like the concept of defending these headquaters that are built for good defense.

Does anyone know how many players it takes to go to a 32 and 64 player map?

**Strag** · 11-16-2006, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aculle01

Its not just you, the assault rounds do fire tracer rounds as they do in real life. Of course whether or not each soldier uses them (tracers work in both directions) is another story.

I know SAWs, LMGs, and especially GPMGs are sometimes fired with tracer rounds (I've seen four ball plus one tracer), but I don't know of any standard loadout for the assault rifles that uses tracers. I'm talking about the standard M16s, AKs, and SA80s (not the LMG versions of each). If this is a Reality mod, I don't think the standard assault rifles should be firing tracers.

**BigGaayAl** · 11-16-2006, 10:00 AM

Remarkable. I have a less than super joystick, and gave up flying in vanilla (jets at least) because no matte how I calibrated, I couldn't fly straight, and got whooped all the time by the likes of Santa flying with a keyboard! I didn't want to fly a jet with a keyb, ever.

But now in PR it's all magically fixed. I can fly straight, I can easily control the aircraft from the first go. In short I'm baffled by this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strag

I know SAWs, LMGs, and especially GPMGs are sometimes fired with tracer rounds (I've seen four ball plus one tracer), but I don't know of any standard load out for the assault rifles that uses tracers. I'm talking about the standard M16s, AKs, and SA80s (not the LMG versions of each). If this is a Reality mod, I don't think the standard assault rifles should be firing tracers.

Definitely a bit too much on the tracers currently. In some fights it feels more like a starwars mod with all the lasers going off

PS: I can fly straight!

Rick_the_new_guy · 11-16-2006, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strag

I know SAWs, LMGs, and especially GPMGs are sometimes fired with tracer rounds (I've seen four ball plus one tracer), but I don't know of any standard loadout for the assault rifles that uses tracers. I'm talking about the standard M16s, AKs, and SA80s (not the LMG versions of each). If this is a Reality mod, I don't think the standard assault rifles should be firing tracers.

I agree with Strag.

Although a civilian puke, an assault detail should keep their position of attack hidden. The tracers would give their spot away, no?

Yeah, Al, I am a keyboard player and i believe the work the PR crew did with the air vehicles is fantastic.

The 5 minute respawn wait will creat some negative feedback, but it is an awsome asset that needs some type of balance.

Perhaps this will only improve the skill of the pilots and keep them less from being Daredevils.

BaneII · 11-16-2006, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strag

I know SAWs, LMGs, and especially GPMGs are sometimes fired with tracer rounds (I've seen four ball plus one tracer), but I don't know of any standard loadout for the assault rifles that uses tracers. I'm talking about the standard M16s, AKs, and SA80s (not the LMG versions of each). If this is a Reality mod, I don't think the standard assault rifles should be firing tracers.

There is no standard layout for rifles since each person loads their own ammo into their magazines. If the person wants or doesnt want tracers, it's up to the individual unless there is a specific order against it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Although a civilian puke, an assault detail should keep their position of attack hidden. The tracers would give their spot away, no?

Do you think there is a magical "Q" in real life that tells you where the enemy is? Tracers will show your buddies where you are shooting at as well as if gunfire is friendly or enemy (identified by the color).

**Strag** · 11-16-2006, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaneII

There is no standard layout for rifles since each person loads their own ammo into their magazines. If the person wants or doesnt want tracers, it's up to the individual unless there is a specific order against it.

For 5.56mm ammo, standard M855 ball is what's typically issued to US riflemen on 10-round stripper clips, to be loaded into magazines. Now, I've heard of loading a tracer round near the end of the mag so the firer knows he's almost empty, but that's about it. There's no (sensible) reason a rifleman should load tracers, and I'd prefer to see them removed from PRM unless fired from a SAW, LMG, GPMG, or HMG. It may be a nitpick, but it's really the only thing about this mod that bothers me.

aculle01 · 11-16-2006, 01:45 PM

All rifles have tracers and Bane has stated both reasons why. You can call "fire on my tracers" to help direct fire on enemy positions and it helps you determine friend/foe fire. Tracer loadout is usually every 3rd or 5th round in the mag.

BaneII · 11-16-2006, 02:28 PM

Machine gun ammuniton is clipped together so the gunner has no choice as to the layout of the bullets. Rifle magazines are loaded by hand, regardless if the ammo comes on a clip or not. While you can use the clip to push the bullets into the magazine, it doesnt always work well. The M16 magazine usually had problems, one being the spring getting stuck if you put in the full 30 rounds. Thus the majority of folks in the know use about 25 rounds. It was little things like this that made loading ammo an individual effort because folks didnt want their magazine to jam. Thus it was not uncommon for folks to put in each bullet separately by hand. That is why I said there is no standard layout for magazine rifles. It's little things like that that separate the game from reality. Your average M16 user wouldnt have a full magazine.

11-15-2006, 09:47 PM	#78 (permalink)
Grunt 70 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Massachusetts Age: 43 Posts: 2,416	Re: Project Reality Mod v0.4 First Impressions Great post Gahlas though I don't see the connection to the quote. Please spell it out. Follow the 1st around on any given night and you'll see we have more than our share of miscues. I've been the victim of the kind of tactical failure you spell out many times. I can't count the number of times I've been wiped out because of slow forming tactics or a plan that was ill conceived and mis delivered. For me, every time I've been wiped out trying to carry off a complicated or unwise stratagy there are is an equal amount of glorified success. Moments of satisfying tactical excellence that are the core of the immersive experience I seek when I strap on these old headphones. Here at TG I know people will believe me whan I say I find the most enjoyment in this crazy virtual battlefield while doing things like squad level bounding overwatch or playing medic the way it should be played. It sounds like you even agree with me as you end your post. The great thing about BF2 here at TG is that both types of approaches are more than welcome...(within some reason of course) __________________ \|TG-22nd\|Grunt "When force is necessary, it must be applied boldly, decisively, and completely. But one must know the limitations of force; one must know when to blend force with maneuver" - Leon Trotsky

11-15-2006, 11:51 PM	#81 (permalink)
Santa Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Age: 18 Posts: 3,355	Re: Project Reality Mod v0.4 First Impressions Ive had that VOIP delay in vanilla. I think its an extremely rare bug. Long time ago i was in bommandos squad and kept hearing things several minutes after they happened. It was pretty damn hillarious to hear Bommando screaming at us to do something when we werent even being attacked at the moment.

11-16-2006, 08:33 AM	#83 (permalink)
Rick_the_new_guy Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Virginia Beach Age: 29 Posts: 1,789	Re: Project Reality Mod v0.4 First Impressions Just got off the TG server and D Plant 32 player was on. I was able to get a good feel for the air vehicles. Big thumbs up. I found them to be very responsive. Seems like the jets and Gunships do not have the same sick awsome turning speeds though. The jet decreased in turning ablitly more than the gunship. Or it could have been the fact that I never flu those jets before. Having some experience in these vehicles from my single player months before going online, my favorite thumbs up is that the Gunship pilot can expend their 24 rockets all at one time and that the accuracy of the rockets are much much better. Must be because they move a lot faster. The gattling gun seems to have more splash so that is good. The Mig is gone for the Chinese and they have a bomber like fighter. has five bombs and no rockets I think. The best part about the jets is that they rearm fairly liberaly (Flying by). I am glad the PR team did this because without doing this the assets will not get used on account of the sick small run way (China) The ultimate equalizer from these things being over powered is that their respawn time is around 4-5 minutes (same for any air vehicle). So ever time a grunt sees a jet or gunship go down report it up the chain of command because this will allow the team to work under less pressure. A sick awsome feature is that now the arty can be destroyed by something other than C4. Indeed, the arty comes even up over the pilot screen. It may take a couple of runs to take them down though, they are fairly tuff. however, I am sure a gunship can finish them off with ease in less than a minute. This map also has no UCBs, this would make for some interesting gaming. With our bleed system it may not work out well with 24 players per side. six flags. Four flags to bleed. 1. Keep your main head quaters. 2. Keep a flag adjacent to your H.Q. 3. Try to get two other flags. With a gunships and jets this set-up would the defense a little thin to when holding the four flags. 5 man squads to defend four flags. That is 20 players. two for gunship and one for jets, that is 23. one CO, that is 24. I guess it would work out o.k. I certainly like the concept of defending these headquaters that are built for good defense. Does anyone know how many players it takes to go to a 32 and 64 player map? __________________ (PO3) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Member (CPO) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Leader (LCDR) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Commander Squad Member pledge to their SL:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...ad-leader.html Squad Leader pledge to their team:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...r-platoon.html Commander pledge to their SL:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...d-leaders.html

11-16-2006, 01:45 PM	#89 (permalink)
aculle01 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Monterey, CA Age: 25 Posts: 1,398	Re: Project Reality Mod v0.4 First Impressions All rifles have tracers and Bane has stated both reasons why. You can call "fire on my tracers" to help direct fire on enemy positions and it helps you determine friend/foe fire. Tracer loadout is usually every 3rd or 5th round in the mag. __________________ "I once thought I had mono for an entire year. It turned out I was just really bored."

11-16-2006, 02:28 PM	#90 (permalink)
BaneII Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Durham, NC Posts: 2,424	Re: Project Reality Mod v0.4 First Impressions Machine gun ammuniton is clipped together so the gunner has no choice as to the layout of the bullets. Rifle magazines are loaded by hand, regardless if the ammo comes on a clip or not. While you can use the clip to push the bullets into the magazine, it doesnt always work well. The M16 magazine usually had problems, one being the spring getting stuck if you put in the full 30 rounds. Thus the majority of folks in the know use about 25 rounds. It was little things like this that made loading ammo an individual effort because folks didnt want their magazine to jam. Thus it was not uncommon for folks to put in each bullet separately by hand. That is why I said there is no standard layout for magazine rifles. It's little things like that that separate the game from reality. Your average M16 user wouldnt have a full magazine. __________________ -33rd- BaneII Smokers & Jokers

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