ARMORED CAValry

**johnflenaly** · 03-13-2007, 11:58 AM

He guys need a little help. I'm trying to formulate some armoured SOP's for pr that I can wright into my up and coming guide.(fraps videos included) Tonight and for the next few days I'll be running ARMDCAV squads feel free to hope in and help me out. Also post any and all advice you have for vehicular based squads being it Tanks, APCs, or heavy jeeps.

Edit: Starting SOPS for the squad

1. Will be running two vehicals Alpha and Bravo.

2. Once people are assigned to a vehicle you will be axpected to stay with your crew.

3. When calling target for the group, state compass direction, number, and type(infantry/jeeps/armour ect.)

4. When calling immediate threats for a particular vehicle state name ,(alpha/bravo) and direction in relations to the main hull of the vehicle. left, right, front, back ect.

5. I will also ask that comm chatter be kept to bare minumus.

Rick_the_new_guy · 03-13-2007, 01:04 PM

Talk to the CO about getting your squad a dedicated infantry support squad.
If not there, type a request to a SL you can trust.

Reward the CO or SL by wathing the grunts back on the assaults and providing Assault Rally Points (A.P.C.).

Cheers.

**gunjunkie** · 03-13-2007, 03:04 PM

See my thoughts here.

Agree we need armor SOPs, as I think using it properly in PRM is a very different beast to the other variants.

Not sure that all the armor in one squad is the right way to go, but that thread explains.

Backlash-7 · 03-13-2007, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnflenaly

He guys need a little help. I'm trying to formulate some armoured SOP's for pr that I can wright into my up and coming guide.(fraps videos included) Tonight and for the next few days I'll be running ARMDCAV squads feel free to hope in and help me out. Also post any and all advice you have for vehicular based squads being it Tanks, APCs, or heavy jeeps.

Edit: Starting SOPS for the squad

1. Will be running two vehicals Alpha and Bravo.

2. Once people are assigned to a vehicle you will be axpected to stay with your crew.

3. When calling target for the group state compass direction, number, and type(infantry/jeeps/armour ect.)

4. When calling immediate threats for a particular vehicle state name (alpha/bravo) and direction in relations to the main hull of the vehicle. left, right, front, back ect.

5. I will also ask that comm chatter be kept to bare minumus.

Looks alot like something the 1st MIP would dream up. I'd say get in touch with E_male or John (Jon?) Canavar (spelling?) and see if they can help you out. Those folks at the 1st are really into alpha-bravo ops, getting out a complete and accurate SALUTE report and making sure that folks stay in an assigned fire team/vehicle. They will probably have some pretty good pointers for you as well.

HTH

**johnflenaly** · 03-13-2007, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Backlash-7

Looks alot like something the 1st MIP would dream up. I'd say get in touch with E_male or John (Jon?) Canavar (spelling?) and see if they can help you out. Those folks at the 1st are really into alpha-bravo ops, getting out a complete and accurate SALUTE report and making sure that folks stay in an assigned fire team/vehicle. They will probably have some pretty good pointers for you as well.

HTH

Yeah I've run with them many a time however they usually foot zerg it. Doesn't matter either way all help is welcome and appreciated.

**Grunt 70** · 03-13-2007, 04:49 PM

Sounds like alot of fun. I'm up for it and I'll try to get a spot in your squad when I see it running.

Gitchy · 03-13-2007, 09:08 PM

I was in the squad earlier, great squad, fun too.

-Gitchy

KevlarBR · 03-14-2007, 02:56 AM

So, any luck on the squad???

Waiting for some feedback, as I believe playing in armour only squads should be quite fun!

**Squinty** · 03-14-2007, 06:32 AM

It's been interesting reading peoples take on handling armor squads including this thread and gunjunkie's thread. Alot of good points and ideas. I've also had the opportunity to take part in several different armor squads over the past couple days, which has been alot of fun.

I was in Johnflenaly's Armor Squad for a while today. The map was Qwai River. Went well for the most part, thanks John for trying that out.

Here's a quick AAR:
As JohnF. recommended 2 crewman and one engineer got a tank as Bravo and 2 crewman and 1 engineer took a APC as Alpha. The other tank took off before we could commandeer it.

We rolled out from the main base and quickly set up positions guarding the bridge over the main river. the armor tried to minimize their exposure to fire. The APC went down into a ditch for cover and the tank moved behind a high mound of earth so the gunner(myself) still had a view of the bridge.

The engineer from Alpha moved up as a forward observer and placed mines on the bridge and was able to give advanced warning of approaching vehicles. We took out several jeeps, one apc and if memory serves correctly one tank? Most at medium to long range.

We then had to fall back to help retake the temple flag. When our tank moved into range of the main temple building I proceeded to put heat shells into the temple. I then switched to more pinpoint machine gun fire when friendly squads started to overwhelm the position.

The hardest part was relaying enemy positions quickly and effectively to people in the same tank let alone the other vehicle so they could respond to the threat in a timely manner. This was also compounded by people leaving and joining the squad and having to have the SL reassign the new squadmates. The majority of people did very well in the assigned roles, and it was a enjoyable round of PR for me.

What I've been thinking about lately is the advantages and disadvantages of having armor pieces working closely together. Are two tanks better than one? With tanks in theory it'd be great to bring two M-1 cannons to bear on a hapless T-90 and blow it to pieces before they know what's happening. I haven't seen this implemented yet in game though. The maps I've had a chance to do with PR do not seem to favor armor very much. Air power hinders trying to move groups of armor over large open areas. The city maps make it hard to bring in the armor without taking it from the other teams Heavy AT. I've seen some success with tank squads in POE2, but thats a whole other beast.

Each vehicle has its strong point and I wonder what the tanks are in PR. I think they do well at range in a defensive role, I also find them handy shelling rooftops and bunkers. They're also great at drawing unwanted attention

**johnflenaly** · 03-14-2007, 10:56 AM

Well had my first run with the Armored Cav on Qwai River. Squinty was with me as well as Gitchy, E-male and a few others. As far as the first run went I'd say I had mixed results. Had a few teamplay/teamwork issues. Also was killed a couple of times at outpost befor it was cappable but thats for another thread.

Things I've learned

1. Comms needs to be kept at an absolute minumum.

2. Targets should be called with a compass direction.(mostly my fault didn't explain this to the fellas at the beggining.

3. Armour is actually really effective together. We only had problems when we got seperated.

4. Third gunner on tank is useful and should be manned. Very help full for keeping at off you if you have and observant gunner.

Anyways another day another squad I'll be starting another up around 6 pm cst. Look me up in ts for an invite.

**Squinty** · 03-14-2007, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnflenaly

4. Third gunner on tank is useful and should be manned. Very help full for keeping at off you if you have and observant gunner.

Definitely agree that its important to fully crew the tanks.
The job of the 50cal gunner(Engineer Kit) can be a varied and important one.

Provide better overall situational awareness to the tank crew.
Anti infantry, especially in the main gunners blind spots.
Repair the tank as needed. x3 the repair rate of a crewman.
Pick up mines in the way and fix damaged bridges as needed.

Amdak · 03-14-2007, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnflenaly

Well had my first run with the Armored Cav on Qwai River.

Qwai River is a somewhat easy map for the chinese tanks, the USMC team has no tanks, attack helicopters or jets. The tanks only actually have to watch out for H-AT since that L-AT is a joke when you can just move away for repairs without risking leaving the area without armor support.
Not to mention that for the same reason with 2 tanks at the same place its only a good idea to attack the tanks with H-AT from the back. By the time that the gunner have moved the turret from the front/side to the back and can fire a shot the AT has enough time to escape and find a new place to hit the tank with the 2nd AT missile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnflenaly

3. Armour is actually really effective together. We only had problems when we got seperated.

Tanks moving close to each other = Ambush bait. It would be too easy for the other team to prepare an ambush for the tanks and take out both of them.
IMO, its just a bad idea to move tanks in a distance below 150 meters from each other unless theres an enemy tank that both tanks are attacking, but its mostly a good idea to keep both tanks at a distance of below 300 meters so that if one tank gets into too much trouble or gets disabled the other tank could support it.
Not to mention that on maps where both teams have tanks the closer you have both tanks the easier you make it for an enemy tank to damage or destroy both tanks.
It depends on how organised the other team seems to be, if its organised then you should probably stick to using the tanks for defence and supporting inf at grey flags when you can move with inf cover for most of the road to the objective. If the other team seems to have little to no organisation youre the king of the map in a tank.
(Just saying how i think the tanks could be used more effectively.)

Another option for using tanks is having a tank squad where 3 control the tank and 3 more inf move ahead of the tank to scout the road and clear it from any enemies that could risk the tank, since that it only requires 5 fully manned squads to have 30 people in squads (+1 as commander) it wont cause too much trouble on maps that only have 1-2 tanks and its possible to spare a squad so that each tank already has dedicated inf support. (The tank(s) and their dedicated support defend with 1 more squad and the rest attack.)
IMO, dedicated inf support capable of directly communicating with the tank crew is more useful than one that needs to relay messages using the commander.
It would also cause less chat confusion when each of the 2 tanks has its own separate channel, if theres a commander that is actually doing his job he could relay messages from one tank to the other.
The downside is that it requires a far more organised team than just having both tanks in the same squad, but it could help the tanks work more effectively and survive longer.

BigGaayAl · 03-14-2007, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squinty

The hardest part was relaying enemy positions quickly and effectively to people in the same tank let alone the other vehicle so they could respond to the threat in a timely manner. This was also compounded by people leaving and joining the squad and having to have the SL reassign the new squadmates.
...
What I've been thinking about lately is the advantages and disadvantages of having armor pieces working closely together. Are two tanks better than one?

Mys answer is for the moment a clear NO. Two tanks offer a percentage more firepower. What you want in synergy. A tank benefits much more from having infantry in front of him and vice versa.

For starters the enemy needs different weapons to deal with infantry or tanks so it's logistically harder for them. Isn't the whole idea to have combined arms assault?
Off course you can keep infantry close when you have an "armor squad". Personally I have had multiple rounds in a 1 tank squad, haven't died more then once in any of them.

I am very interested to hear how you guys do this strat and how it will work out in the future. Logistics of squad cohesion is very hard in armor squad

**gunjunkie** · 03-14-2007, 04:08 PM

I agree with Al. I think its important, in PR, to keep the ratio of infantry to tank high. 4-5 man squad, 2 crew, the rest protect and guard the tank from threats due to limited visibility. One infantry mans the MG as needed, but may leave to work on other tasks. I think having, say, 2 tanks on a map being able to hold down different flanks is also important. This tends not to happen if both are in one squad. Also, comms are easier if you only have one vehicle in a squad.

Still, glad to see everyone trying to get to a good, workable SOP for tanks in PR. As I've said, I think they are a different beast here, as opposed to other variants of BF2.

**johnflenaly** · 03-14-2007, 04:52 PM

Well seems to be the general consensus is that two vech armour squads don't work. Leave it to me to try and prove you wrong. In terms of combined arms I would like to try and make this work with MIP multi squad platoons.