NERDS_R_COOL

I thought I would air this one out in the open as it seems applicable to all, I have removed the name of the sender of this pm.

Well, I am not sure what incidents this person is referring to... However, I do remember a specific incident where a commander was berating me and my squad. Please note we at BLKOPS like to have fun, we like teamwork, and like everyone else we like to win, on the same token we will defend ourselves if verbally attacked. When someone has demonstrated that they do not care for us and decides to take a step further by being rude....... well, we rarely pull punches after the gloves are off.

On the commanding aspect and following CO orders: I have seen many a CO who seem to have the "Command & Conquer Complex" where they think that they need to have complete obediance. I have seen few good commanders. The one quality I have recognized that has made a successfull commander is the ability to recognize that squads and squad leaders must possess initiative and to be aggressive on their own. After that its merely a matter of directing them to the fight.

The incident I reffered to earlier where the commander was berating me.... Well, I had recieved no orders from the commander as of 5 minutes in the round. My men were at X-ray ( I do not recall the name of the map) we destroyed 1 spawn car and had taken out a squad. I noticed on the map that 2 squads were getting completely destroyed trying to assualt victor from the front. Whiskey was ours and strongly defended so I decided to flank from yankee (still no orders). We ran into resistance near yankee (verbal bashing begins on why we were out there). I explain (with just a hint of attitude ;-) ... ) our plan. 2 minutes later we destroy the spawn car relieve the pressure at victor and help cap the flag.

Most of the time I will let the commander know what I am doing ( as long as he is keeping up some sort of communication). However, If the first thing I hear from the commander comes with attitude, well your probably gonna get some back.

Plan6

My squad had the same problem that night. This form of agressive COing is annoying. Our squad leader was threatened with being kicked if he didnt get his squad in order, which was silly because we all just died due to two emeny squads over running our flank.

Over the last week or people have been noticing a higher level of agressive COing and Admining. I understand the job is hard at times, but we are all playing for fun in the end. Kicking for a valid reason is good, but if the player comes back upset and want to know why, the Admin should be able to explaine it calmly.

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Trooper

please dont post pms on the forums. If you have issues pm the person back or an admin to get things figured out. We dont care to read about them. Guess you need to read the TG server SOPs.

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that sounds like a good idea trooper.
-Vulcan

Portable.Cougar

Usually that would be the case Trooprt[SNPR] and thank you for spelling out forum rules for us.

The real reason this was posted is the constant flack us BLKOPS members see on the server. The PM was a way to air out any conflicts before they esclated.

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Trooper

So why post about them on a public forum for all to read? If the issues have been handled behind closed doors, which they should have been, why post them on the forums. And if you guys are getting flack constently maybe that means you need to adjust your game play to fit our rules and guidelines. Our members dont give out flack without warrent.

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that sounds like a good idea trooper.
-Vulcan

Drizzid

I think they are trying to initiate some constructive conversation about the topic of over zealous CO's Trooper. They mentioned no names so I don't think what they are doing is a bad post. Especially since most everything I have heard about the BLCKOPS guys they are stand up gentlemen who do play by our rules.

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Beatnik

This sounds like a perfectly reasonable thread, given his reasoning stated in the OP. It's not a flame thread or airing personal dirty laundry; it's addressing a perceived issue by several members of the community, and trying for a resolution, which is, you know, the point of the forums. Thanks for posting it tactfully and without resorting to name calling or immaturity, nerds. That being said, "giving attitude" toward either SLs or COs is not the best way to operate on our server.

There are a variety of CO styles we see on the server. Certain players are much more micro-focused when it comes to CO (or SL). I think the best course of action would be to give the CO a heads up of what you can work with best as a SL (i.e. objectives/goals, with leeway on how to accomplish them). Generally that works very well.

The worst cases I've seen of this is extremely shortsighted COs (usually a new face) that on some level miss it when a squad is actually helping the team in a more fundamental way than "throw bodies at that flag until it's capped". I've seen a few instances of this personally, and it's very irritating. In those cases I try to let the CO know that 1) I'm competent, 2) I'm on board with helping the team and 3) Here's what I'd like to do given my perspective on the battlefield and why. If the CO disagrees, I'll usually give in, but I'll definitely let him know when the objective I was going after comes back to hurt the team, after which I'm usually given the green light to go neutralize it.

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asch

As Beatnik mentioned, there are a variety of CO styles. Personally, this breaks down into two things.

(none of this is directed at any individual)

1) Communicate.
A CO has the high level view. SL has the on-ground view. Communicate the situation, offer up suggestions. Avoid being argumentative.

2) Follow Orders
Because the CO has the high level view, after the SL has explained the situation if the CO still has certain orders, then the SLs should do their best to follow them.

---

@ BLKOPS folks.... if you guys are following the two points above then you're doing nothing wrong. If there are problematic individuals, the first step is to approach them. If that doesn't work, then don't hesitate to contact an admin.

@ ALL players... we demand respect on our servers and in our forums.

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BLKOPS|Supercracker

Nerds and Cougar were explaining to me when an incident occurred in game and I wasn't on. I don't understand where the flack towards us as a group comes from. I mean the only people who are very frequent regulars are me, nerds, and cougar.

I usually never am a SL, I leave that to the experienced leaders in PR such as cougar and nerds. I am usually designated long distance shooter, so I never hear the CO issues.

I am subscribed to this thread to see how the overzealous CO discussion pans out.

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Drizzid

I don't think anyone is giving you guys any flack it was just a lack of communication that's all. As you guys have seen in this thread you have made a good impression on our server. You guys are fine no worries

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Bc2ID

Everyone needs to remember that "bad days" happen to everyone. It could have been a misunderstanding or miscommunication. I remember one incident where I was Co'ing and no one would respond to my voice communication....I was starting to get annoyed..then I realized that my mic mute was on. ;-) It can happen, many times disagreements boil down to people not talking to each other.

BLKOPS- I have had several dealings with your crew, and you all have always complied with the Co's orders. For this reason, it leads me to believe that there was a breakdown in communication. Even if the CO does not engage my squad ealry on in the battle, I will make it a point to check in and give my sitrep and goals. This should be a common practice among all squads.

Remember it is ALL about teamwork and nothing about points...

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IOOB_583

Having been an SL under a variety of commander styles lately I can tell you that it gets frustrating to get 10 attack orders in 3 minutes or less. There is no way to accomplish one of them and there can be miscomunicated "target priorities." There are also the CO's who speak softly, so softly that it is tough to discern what they want me to do, and I am uncertain of what I am looking for at an attack to location or what the overall objective of "my" mission is as SL.

I try to work with the commander as much as possible and, when the orders are conflicting or completely out of my range, I will let them know. To be engaged in a heavy firefight with an opposing squad then to try and pull men and myself out of it to cross a river towards another flag is just not prudent. One way or another we are going to wind up dead but at least by remaining engaged with the current action we can take some of them with us. Thereby giving follow up squads half a chance of defending a flag or finding where their forces are coming from.

Other than that it is a grayish area. Some CO's give you direction and support - some just continue to bark out orders with limited information. Having been CO precious few times I can tell you it gets a little nerve racking. Alot of information in front of you that you somehow have to get transfered verbally to your team. Most of the maps with arty for both sides seem less stressful as you have the option to drop a load of pain at your SL's request - he's the eyes on the ground and should know what he wants. Though by dropping arty for one squad a second will be perturbed that he isn't getting his.

To expect to blindly accept an order because that would be the normal structure of things cannot always be expected. In real life your CO is not looking at a satellite view of your blue names running around either in city or jungle nor is he spotting sacks in the perimeter that need to be destroyed. "defend" this area are the orders or "Attack" this area - how it gets done depends alot on the guys in the field. If they need to be told how to do either of them we would have alot more dead men.

The Blackops guys play exceptionally well, as do many others, though it is a game and to be PM'ing or threatening to kick seems a bit harsh and over the top. If they are doing that poor of a job then stop giving them orders and concentrate on the remaining squads to try and get the job done. They will hear what you tell the other squads and make their own judgement calls on priorities.

IMHO this about covers most of what I have seen - not being able to speak for anyone elses experience I just wanted to put it out there.

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fuzzhead

I played with blkops guys last night on albasrah and they were a useful tank squad supporting our APCs, even though we had some new players and were mainly teaching tactics, and frequently getting bombed by jihad bikes, they stayed with us and pulled back when we pulled back, when most players would have simply went about their own way (ending up getting killed)

kudos for you guys, you got my respect as well as others who were on last night.

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Root

Wrong. Whoever sent you the PM was doing things exactly the way they should have been done. This isn't some other forum, where this kind of thing gets allowed in public. It's only one step removed from sites that publicly handle un-ban requests in public. We are Tactical Gamer. We have high standards of conduct in our forum and on our server.

Clearly some folks are dis-satisfied with the BLKOPS crew and their conduct on the server. At least one has approached this in the right way, by going directly to one of you and expressing their disapproval. I salute them for doing so, even though I don't know who "them" is. Regardless of whether or not you ARE ignoring our standards on the server, you ARE ignoring them with the OP.

Take it to PM or suck it up, gentlemen.

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Trooper

Thank you, i wasnt trying to be rude or berating new members. I was going by Forum rules, as stated.

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that sounds like a good idea trooper.
-Vulcan