ChernobylKinsman

Is it possible to make it so the insurgents can't recap facility but only neutralize it? That would, at least, mean getting it back was faster for the US if they lose it and help them get back to trying to take mosque.

Morganan

I don't misunderstand the objective at all, I think respectfully that you do. AAS2 is about determining which flags are "in play" to avoid all the flag hopping vanilla bf2, and all previous versions of the battlefield game series had/have. The objective of a team playing any version of the battlefield series has always been to have more tickets remaining when the round ends on any particular map then the other team does. There are multiple ways this can be accomplished, some of which are determined by the map layout and initial ticket allocation, some of which are determined by strategies which fall under the commander's purview. You are giving one strategy of possibly winning the map, I am giving another. Neither is right or wrong, they just take different outlooks on how the ultimate goal can be best achieved.

My strategy is more cautious and patient, with my main idea being to conserve resources(a.k.a. tickets) until the game has turned to your advantage, then taking advantage of that situation to pull out a long victory. Your strategy is based on taking more aggressive action that tends to decide the issue quicker, one way or another. Neither your strategy or mine have anything to do with the AAS2 system, which is about what order you can cap the flag's.

Changing the flag groupings might end up being helpful, but in all honestly this map would probably be the most fun without the AAS system at all.

BigGaayAl

I've been thinking this for a long time. I think it would be quite fun. The tickets might have to be adjusted to fit this though. Bleed would have to be looked at. The bleed against the insurgents should start later or not at all. I would keep bleed as long as the insurgents have all flags.

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Plan6

Anything has to be better than the way the map normaly plays out now. The fact that its in the rotation twice makes me cry. There are so many other maps that are better than AB that should be in the rotation more. Hell I think the AAS version of Gulf of Omar is better than AB.

Sabre_Tooth_Tigger

Thats a more convential digestible map plus on that one the usmc have 3 flags that the mec cant recap.
I like either, they both have lots of vehicles

Only problem is the mec get bombed in their base quite a bit, they still win just like basrah

H_nd_of_God

I would like to see Inf Only basrah. That would be interesting.

Replace the APC/tanks/aircraft with Hummers or Jihad cars. (each being a spawn car for each side)

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ednos

That's not a bad idea at all. I wonder if this is something we could implement easily, or if it would require a lot of modification to test it.

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Amdak

Inf only Basrah would be at best a horrible idea :\
It would be like the 32 version but with more tickets and an even smaller amount of spawn points for the USMC.

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Al Basrah just needs its cap groups changed to a reasonable setting.
I think that it would work better as :

Village, Industry : Both in the same group and both cant be re-capped by the insurgents. The ticket bleed should stop whenever the USMC gets either one of the 2 flags.
As of now its actually fully possible for the insurgents to get 1 SA7, 1 RPG and 1 SVD/PKM on the industry roof while keeping both AA guns manned and 1 RPG on the ground to turn industry into a vehicle storage and only pull a spawn car out of it once its required. The area would be untouchable for any aircraft and ground forces would have quite a bit of problems getting close enough to destroy anything. Another smaller squad of 2-4 insurgents could easily constantly smoke the inside of the warehouse and keep the first squad resupplied, making it yet even harder for the USMC to destroy anything inside.
For that reason industry should be a flag that the USMC can take at the round start, its basically a large fort that can easily deny access to the city from both suburbs and be the source of some serious annoyances to anyone trying to get into the city from the desert.

Facility, Mosque : Since that the USMC team already has both VCPs, Village and Industry i think that it makes perfect sense for them to be able to attack either one of the 2 flags.
Not really a ton of text to put here, i think that its obvious to anyone why both should be in the same cap group.

Suburb, Palace : Quite obvious, since that the insurgents can easily cut off the land passes to both palace and suburbs keeping only the far bridge that connects the 2. The ticket bleed should only start once either one of the 2 flags is lost.

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Another suggestion for a more inf based setting would be :

Village : On its own group, cant be re-capped by the insurgents. Stops the USMC ticket bleed.

Industry : Can be recapped. It can be very easily defended with a pair of snipers/marksmen, 1 rifleman, 1 grenadier and 2 medics. (All possible to put in 1 squad, another squad could obviously also assist in keeping the outer areas secured)
1 sniper and 1 marksman with a medic and a rifleman could easily defend the flag from the roof, which the USMC can just use the blackhawks to get inf to the roof.

Suburb, Mosque : Attacking the mosque with some armor would be possible, but not that much of a good idea, most of the road to the suburb would be blocked for any armor. Forcing the USMC to depend on black hawks for transports and cobras for fire support.
Both flags can be capped back and they dont trigger a ticket bleed.

Facility, Palace : At this point the USMC could attack in more force and with a lot more armor, among all, the A10s would be completely useless at this point besides for a few attacks on the palace they would hardly be capable of getting any kills (I know, TG isnt about kills, but its just another thing that would keep kill whores away from the A10s.) or be of any use. The palace would basically be quite a bad idea to attack with armor since that the secured areas for it to move in would still be very limited.
Facility would be a lot less defended than it is now since that at the same time the USMC can take the palace. Which is by a far more important to keep than the facility. (Undestroyable spawn point)
Facility shouldnt be possible to re-cap and should trigger a ticket bleed once capped.
Palace should be possible to re-cap, however it shouldnt trigger a ticket bleed.

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Just 2 suggestions on how Basrah in its current form would IMO, play a lot better. Most chances are that either one or both of my suggestions in actual play would fail horribly, but i think that its worth trying.
The map is great, but the current flag groups make it become boring after an hour. Since that by that time most of the things that can be blown up have already been blown up you cant even do silly cinematic things like smash the fence in the north entrance to the facility by driving a tank at full speed into it. (Quite fun to do, generates a nice cinematic battlerecorder screenshot if done right.)


I agree that the players can make the map fun or horrible, but the fact that some players would always use the exact same tactic on the map can make the map too easy as insurgent. After playing enough rounds on it you can even guess at what order the insurgent spawn cars would get blown up...
Unless youre going to make the TG server passworded 24/7 or remove it from the server list theres no way to only have specific player types on the server. I think that creative ideas are more reasonable than just saying what can be summed up to : "The map can be fun if its a nice day for online gaming, otherwise youre basically screwed with 1-3 hours of the exact same horrible gameplay."
The reason that it shows on Basrah more than other maps is that on most other maps its easier to make a push beyond the flags that would in most cases be a stand still for a lot of time, while on Basrah if there was a huge spotlight on the facility it would be amusing to watch the lights constantly change. Which on the bright side would make all the players that do nothing but think about themselves stare at the shiny light while players on the other team constantly kill them for entertainment.

Morganan

I REALLY like the first suggestion you gave for adjusting the map Amdak. I think the initial ticket allocation would have to be adjusted slightly. I am unsure which direction the tickets would need to be adjusted, but I forsee the Us quickly stopping the bleed, and quite possibly actually getting a bleed going on the insurgent's with these changes..


Having said all that, I still believe the best and easiest method of adjusting this map is to up the respawn timer on the spawn cars by 10 or 15 minutes, but your idea defintely has merit to it.

H_nd_of_God

I was playing on my 24/7 basrah server last night and the squad I was in were lead by the blackhawk pilot. We had 2 Spec Ops with slams 2 medics 1 rifleman and the leader.

1st objective was to take out all anti aircraft. Easily done with almost all of the insurgents at village defending.
2nd Objective was the bridges. Another Easy Task.

Then we realized that there was no progression on the village. The score was like 350 to 600 and going down fast. We decided to lend a hand and make a few circles around the flag unloading with the chopper then dropping down and and finishing off the few remaining insurgents. We then went back to making sure bridges stayed down until we noticed that the score was like 200 to 550.

This is where the game became one of the greatest PR experiences of my life.

We circled the facility a few times gunning like mad and then dropped right in the courtyard, bailed out and let the bhawk go repair and capped the flag. Those who died spawned right back on the bhawk the rest were extracted off the main road.

Hop to mosque and repeat the plan. It was wild to have bullets, rockets, smoke and bombs flying all around as you make for cover and secure the area.

We repeated this process all the way to the palace where we got bombed repeatedly by our own A10s even though our SL was going off in chat to stop the bombing. We lost suburbs and industry so we regrouped and did it again.

It was great, we ended up winning with plenty of tickets to spare (45 to 0).

Sad thing is, we got killed by our own team more than by insurgents, but that's ok, we felt like we single handedly turned the game around by working as a unit and being assertive.

This is why I love this map and what I play this game for, unfortunately, this rarely happens.

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Sabre_Tooth_Tigger

It is rare for usmc to win. People rarely defend facility when its capped, not that Im saying thats its easy to do

link2edition

I've only been using this mod for 3 days and i already hate this map with a passion. video games are about fun not waiting for the other team to make a mistake. if i wanted to wait the whoel round i'd shut off my computer and stare at a blank screen... the experience is just about the same.

Al brasrah is realistic... TOO realistic. the insurgents sit in their city waiting for the marines to come kill them while air-power blows them to kindom come. although this is basicaly how real life battles work(us vs insurgents anyways) i dont know anyone who wants to be the guy getting gunned down by A-10's OR the guy IN the A-10 who cant find a target cause of poor intel.

Project reality is GREAT, but its not fun when simulating a war where the good guys have all the weapons and the bad guys have nothing.

I may have got off my original point here but this map would work better without the AAS system, it needs more action and less waiting. realism dosent work if the thing your simulating is boring

(btw I LOVE the project reality mod, every other map i've played was awsome, this one made me want to leave the server)

Sabre_Tooth_Tigger

I dont think A10's would sent into this situation unless they were looking to level the place.
We dont have destructable buildings on this map but if we did they'd all be flattened by the end of the map pretty much.

They do often get intel on targets though. People spot a boat target for them in games Ive played previously. A bit like artillery

H_nd_of_God

This map but can be daunting at times, but only if people refuse to work together. The new changes *might* make it better but I really like the map how it is.

I've seen insurgents dominate and I've seen USMC dominate pretty evenly. Teamwork is key.

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Romans 3:23

tHa_KhAn

While this does happen, it's not what should happen. Too many people focus on the air power. The US team often waits for the air to do all the work or does not coordinate. The Insurgent team spends too much time hiding or fighting defensively. The US team needs a commander to coordinate the air and ground and the Insurgents need to hunt the aircraft. All the aircraft can easily be down with the Tanks the insurgents get. The AA weapons should be used to scare the aircraft away. No need to actually fire. Work together and setup hits for tanks and AA guns or even AT.

The map is tons of fun when both sides try to make a game of it, instead of just taking the more obvious paths (US air power and Insurgents hunkering in city).

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