ChernobylKinsman

The main problem with industry is it is extremely easy to hover around and kill pretty much everything inside, this was frequently done to destroy the vehicles near the start of the round before the changes. Having it one control group back might be a little better.

Time will tell of course.

BigGaayAl

I really liked how industry was in the first group. I see the reasoning behind it; that the us must take all the flags on the outskirts of the city before they advance.

As others said, the only way the insurgent can win seems to be by retreating into the city and make the fight like the previous edition, focused around facility and mosque.

I played this map as insurgent, and we had bleed most of the time. Yet it did not compare to the a10+cobra bleed we were suffering ourselves.

I'm afraid though that the map might get boring if the us realizes that they are best off by having all infantry play cards at the airfield. Then again there is always someone wanting to attack a flag in this game so it probably won't happen.

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WhiskeySix

We can't change the rate that the flags change can we?

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asch

We can look at when bleed starts / stops and the rate. We may make it painful for the USMC to sit back and not breach the city.

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Sabre_Tooth_Tigger

Asking usmc to capture and hold 4 flags at once is extremely unlikely, every game will reach a stalemate at that point I reckon.

Seems like Usmc win anyway but doesnt seem right to me. The insurgents shouldnt be able to recap the outer three flags once they are capped, so then the game will progress

Blackie Lawless

I like the 32 version for the reason of its smaller size, hopefully it keeps the combat a little more intense and contained.

I also like the 64 version, but thought I might interject a thought I had concerning removal of the A-10. I think two Cobras and two Blackhawks is plenty. I don't really see a tactical use for the A-10 compared to Cobra, and I feel the A-10 creates a lot of unnecessary lag to the game.

Switch

Is it possible to lock flags once a whole set is taken. IE, if they cap the VCP's and warehouse then its locked and now the fight stays in mosq/facility, and if they cap both of those, then those are locked, then to next... etc etc. This way its a matter of complete vigilance.. if they do one good assault and get all three flags then they move on to next target without worrying about constant flag chase.

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gerardnm

My 2 cents on this would be to make all flags insurgent at the start with a heavy bleed on USA.. Flag Groups would be Village (uncappable once captured by USMC) N VCP + S VCP (Uncappable once BOTH are capped by USMC). Then industry (recappable) once industry is capped the bleed stops...then facility, mosque.......this is inline with the thoughts that the USMC must control the outskirts before entering the city. a Good insurgent force can hold village a long time if organised. N + S VCP is harder due to the fact they re open to air attack.

Once N +S are capped the USMC rolls onto industry and the attcak starts into city.

If the USA is good and mobile it can get to indusrty before too many tickets are lost, it has to be aggressive in securing the outskirts, and given the open terrain and overpowering firepower the ticket bleed rate will compensate for this.

Sabre_Tooth_Tigger

How about all flags start off as insurgent but none may be retaken once captured.
After all insurgent forces dont really defend/occupy/hold positions, except with considerable help from the geography prehaps which doesnt apply in a flat terrain city imo.

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Morganan

I don't know, the more I play the version of the map, the more I like this grouping the way it stands currently.

It's not like holding the flags is exceptionally difficult for the US, it's just that nobody wants to do it. Now a legitimate issue on this topic is on a 32 player team you simply will run out of manpower trying to defend 3 flags and attack another with all the vehicle's to man. It is much easier for the insurgent's to focus their effort's and stop the US from moving to "group 3" in the flag grouping's. You simply need all the air vehicles up and running to have a chance to defend NVCP and SVCP against a concentrated attack.

I think the best possible middle ground on this topic would be to change the map back to the "old version" and just add industry to the grouping with facility. That way you get a definte "flow" to the map. Industry/facility allows for the US to realistically isolate the mosque, encircle it, then cap it while still allowing defensive squads at facility and Industry to still be able to give cover to squads moving on mosque.

Having Industry and facility in the same grouping under the old version of this map (where NVCP and SVCP are uncappable by Insurgent's), you spread out the Insurgent's making both flags easier to cap for the US. That add's a strategic layer to the map I think it is currently missing.

asch

Thanks to those providing feedback. Keep it coming...

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Sabre_Tooth_Tigger

It seems to be working ok. Just finished a game where usmc and insurgents fought back and forth but despite insurgents repelling the usmc they lost the war because they died more?

Surely its a given that firing from an A10 onto a city, the usmc will die less and the insurgents wil die more.

If the map is going to be about who dies more rather then who retains the flags as the insurgents did (usmc had south vcp only) then tactics wont be as important as they should be imo.

Thats probably true of every map but especially this one because the insurgents are setup literally to be cannon fodder

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BigGaayAl

I must say, now that I've played insurgent, that it is quit boring, if you try to win by staying under cover of the city. Unless tickets are adjusted, insurgents have two choices; go for industry and south vcp and lose because of the air-power, or stay back at facility and mosque and be bored to death. At least in the round I played the us was unable to get a foothold in the centre of the city.

I think I'd still like to try the map with more flags that the insurgents cannot retake.

In my view, the mosque should be the main focus in the battle. Going from that I have a suggestion.

I would put Village, NVCP, SVCP, Industry and maybe even facility in control group 1 (yes I know 5 flags). The catch is, they cannot be retaken by insurgents.

This might simulate the US encircling the city, gradually, and offers them many choices on how to attack Al Basra. Then the next flags would all be 1 flag control groups. mosque -> suburb -> facility(ucb). These flags are all recappable for the insurgents. I would only put bleed on US, if they have no flags. No bleed on insurgents is needed, or only on facility.

This kind of game would still give the insurgents a good chance, while varying the battle, and giving it more of a storyline.

The us cannot hold a flag against a spawning team of insurgents, yet they can take it intermittently. Therefore, the initial setup with a large control group, and no recap, is definitely do-able for a decent us team. Possibly the US can get into the city and to mosque quite quickly, but they will have to beat the insurgent in a crucial battle (realistic!) over the area around the mosque. If they get that, long enough, the US can push the insurgency back across the rivers, and then the insurgents have to fight uphill.

What do you guys think about that? I'd really like to try something like this, mainly with quite a number of non-recap flags.

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gerardnm

Plyaed last nite with the new grouping........we got as far as facility and even whited out the mosque flag. Once we were in close on the street the AK's began to tell on the US and the facility was retaken then S VCP and N VCP and Industry lol.

USMC still won but that was more because the A10s and Cobras were blowing everything up than winning the ground and pound war.

With the air assets taking 6-8 people its very hard to get enough feet on the ground to take and hold facility whilst moving on mosque. Maybe group these 2 flags together?

fuzzhead

really with the other 24/7 basrah servers, i think you guys should just take it off rotation until v0.6 public beta comes out... just an opinion... im sure nobody would mind as there is plenty of opportunities to play basrah... i dont see it 'fixable' in its current form because of factors out of SSM control (insurgents, etc)