jmaker

If you're in a main base attempting to destroy assets (Artillery/UAV/Radar) it's acceptable to return fire only when being fired upon. But do not actively seek out other targets. Of course you can defend yourself.

I think an addendum to the rules would help. What defines an asset? Such as the CO? Is he an asset? Or are only non-people assets?

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ChernobylKinsman

As I understand it, if you are in to destroy assets you can return fire, not shoot people as they spawn.

Sumbo11

I do not understand why the CO is not defined as an asset. He is the sole user of satellite coverage, the communicator, and logistical support for the entire team. He knows where the enemy is coming from and can direct search and destroy missions against rally points.

He is more important than any other asset in the entire game. Yet, if he is in the UCB then he gets a get out of jail free card. The commander should be sought out and destroyed because he holds true authority and power in the game.

jmaker

Because that's not the purpose of the mod as the developers see it. They don't want squads roaming all over the map. You should be helping your team Advance and Secure control points on the map, not assassinating an undefended opposing CO whose position you can almost be surely guaranteed of.

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asch

The rules define the artillery/uav/radar as the assets in play. These are identifiable objects that live little to no confusion about what is being attacked.

The CO is the tough one. The CO cannot be positively identified as the CO. This can lead to more assaults on players that are not the CO in the UCB, etc. This is why the CO is not listed as a valid target.

The UCB rule is created to direct the battles to the battlefield. The UCB rule is not meant to just create a safe-zone. If a vehicle is returning to the UCB to repair, it is in-play. However, this does not mean that we want players sitting outside of the UCBs waiting for returning vehicles. Allowing this is more for engaged vehicles where one is retreating.

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Switch

Eh... when did squads roaming all over the map get into this thread?
This started with 1 man assigned to demo finding a CO while on asset destruction duty.

By removing a CO in control of arty and satview you are helping your team advance and secure.

As far as the CO being undefended, thats his fault. A CO can hide all game if he puts in the modicum of effort required to walk into the bush and hide.

Anywho -- are you a developer? I don't recall them creating a mission statement that says the purpose of our mod is not to assinate enemy CO's. I thought they assigned CO's a high point value because they're priority targets meant to be hunted down.


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About IDing the CO -- yes, that can be a bit tricky, but i watched him lay in the same spot for a few minutes before I decided that had to be him. Hopefully in future versions the CO will be visually distinct, perhaps some brass on his uniform or stars on the helmet, a way to really determine who it is if you whip out the binocs for close inspection.

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|TG|Switch

Better known as:
That noob who crashed the chopper.
That noob who ran over the mine.
That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

Coridon

Here's my take on this particular situation.

The flags the British needed to cap were in the following order: South Bridge, Trenches, Train, Recon Outpost.

South Bridge was contested, so it was perfectly fine for the British to be there. Trenches has artillery so some forces could be there for the purpose or destroying this asset.

Recon Outpost was far from being in play, so the only reason you were there was to camp the enemy helicopter. Once there you spotted the enemy CO.

I do appreciate you asking whether or not you could destroy the helo and kill the CO, but here's the problem (and ultimately why I told you not to):

This sets a precedent that it's fine to destroy enemy vehicles at any CP on the map and "hunt down the enemy CO". Once one person is allowed to, everyone is allowed to and it's a free-for-all from then on out.

I think a team needs to rethink its strategy when its best plan is to hunt down and eliminate the enemy CO. There's often little incentive for people to command, and if you have to constantly worry about assassins while looking at the map, well, that's going to turn even more people off to the position.

Had the enemy CO been at the Trenches while you were destroying artillery I would've considered him a valid target if you stumbled across him. But I don't ever want the enemy CO to become the primary target of hunter-killer squads roaming around. I also certainly don't want people hunting him down at a flag that is:

A) Not in play
B) Has no assets (artillery)

As I mentioned earlier, if you allow it to happen once, it could get out of hand. Every little blue dot you see in the middle of nowhere could claim he's "going after the enemy CO".

This just doesn't belong here.

7ShadesOSin

I'm with Coridon on this one, and I think the rules do clearly state what are assets (it says artillery/UAV/radar). It's not like it says "etc", or anything else which shows the sentence is open to interpretation.

What are you really acheiving anyway? If he's just launched arty, or some such, he has a reload period anyway. I don't think taking him out for 30 seconds really does you much good. Good squads will cope without him for such a short period of time.

Assets are different. There may not be anyone spawning at the main base, and even if there are they may not be engineers. Assuming the CO is not playing an engineer, he has to be on the ball enough to get someone back there to repair. Often, assets go unrepaired for the entire round.

Anyway, so you kill the CO, and then he spawns 30 seconds later - do you hang around to kill him again? In that case, you'll have to have a rule about how long you have to wait after him spawning for him to be considered "orientated", and situationally aware. I can see it getting really complicated.

Looks to me like the rules are pretty clear. Though I can't comment on what switch said about trenches, because I don't know that map well enough.

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BigGaayAl

I wish people would stop trying to bend the rules. Most of the argumentation leads only to one thing; more easy kills in the enemy's base. It is a fake argument imo

The thread is good though because I wrongly thought the co was killable in the ucb. But as someone said, you just don't know who is co, so how will you kill them? It could be a guy having a sip from his coffee that has gone prone in the base.

The assets for the rest are clearly defined.

On choppers; I personally consider a chopper that is just taking off for the first time since spawn not as an active vehicle; he can not do anything to resist you until he is 50-100m in the air. That is when you can respectfully attack imo. When it has already flown but is repairing, that is fair game for me.

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Root

Where did all this nonsense about assasinating the CO come from? Can any of you tell me exactly HOW you verify he's the CO? If it's on the basis of "he's the only guy at their main base and he's doing nothing" then you're using seriously flawed logic. COs often have to be told that there's a rule against them fighting on the frontline whilst neglegting their CO duties. They frequently have to be reminded that they have do business driving / flying around. Even the ones who do their job properly have been know to take foward-ish positions

If there's ever a clear way to spot a CO I would hope the admins at least consider making him an "asset". A cohesive team could take huge advantage of the OpFor CO being down for 30 seconds. At the moment we rarely have cohesien or team present.

So when you said you'd been using the HAT to kill infantry, you were talking about the thing you wear on your head?

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Dark Viper

If you spot the commander in game, he will show up as a blinking white dot instead of a red one.

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|TG-33rd|Dark_Viper

IOOB_583

UCB camping/assaulting is, unfortunately, still rampant from what I see. Entire squads of people laying just outside of it and pummelling anything that moves out of it. I don't let anyone in my squad do it so I can assure you that we are always on the correct objectives.

Many times I will take my squad 1 step at a time through the AAS directed flags. MANY TIMES we are the only one doing it. 30 people running two flags ahead and leaving 2 guys to raise a flag is bad enough, you then have to see the chatter of "how's that first flag coming, hurry up", sure a force needs to be stuck out on the front line to hold back the mongul hoardes but when a squad is "on it's own" taking heavy fire and trying secure the next link in the chain it is disheartening to see sq's and rp's miles away from the AAS directed area.

Using Airdrop, on Kyongkni (got it close), as an example. The second it goes white you have 5/6ths of the american force boiling down the mountain to take you out. You look at your mini map and 5/6th's of your team is camping out at the outpost or back towards estate and heading to outpost. The airdrop, once grayed, is one of the most hotly contested american flags while the bridge is one of the hardest to take because of it's defensive abilities. 3 American sq's, on the flip side, waiting at estate for the 6 guys to take a flag that can be defended against even a well organized assault by 3 sq's is a bummer.

RAMBLING COMPLETE. The point being = AAS is being circumvented by a large number of people already. I have taken to bumbling off of my defensive posture when, for whatever reason, the commander thinks we don't need to defend the flag. OK, let's go, got our move orders. 20 seconds later the flag I just left goes white and our attack orders change back to where we were.

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Don't let the bastards grind you down!

Switch

Are you serious?!

Problem solved! CO's to the slaughter!

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|TG|Switch

Better known as:
That noob who crashed the chopper.
That noob who ran over the mine.
That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

Atomic Dog

In the current version of PR I see little to no purpose for killing a CO. As someone said previously, 30 seconds of respawn time really does very little to hinder his abilities. That bullet would have been far more useful against an enemy assaulting your cp's or on the frontline.

Now in .6 it sounds like the CO is going to be a bit more mobile and his abilities will be enhanced greatly. To the point I *could* see the advantage of CO assassaination. But I think such a task would *ALWAYS* have to be assigned by your CO to a specialized unit or squad. Nobody should really take it upon themselves to assassainate a CO without proper orders.

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BigGaayAl

I'm sorry but it is not at all fair to insinuate that I contradict myself. When you bend a rule, you know you are breaking it.
If you read the post again you will see that I was doing my best to stick to the rules and primer, under the impression that HAT is used against infantry. Whether it's realistic or not has been decided by Tempus, so now it is pretty clear. So now I prepare to die by the hands of that kit a lot, without doing it myself .

I can appreciate criticism, as long as it is somewhat fair and constructive.

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Support your right to arm bears. ~Cleveland Amory

I am a kind of paranoiac in reverse. I suspect people of plotting to make me happy. ~J.D. Salinger