Root

My point is that using the HAT against infantry is a clear breach of the primer. It's not a real-world tactic.

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movingtarget21

If you read my post on the H-AT sniping thread, Anti-Tank weapons including the Javelin, TOW, and AT4 are used in certain situations against infantry in real life.

I don't have enough posts to do links...its on the second page, #22

TheSkudDestroyer

If you have a huge as gun, why WOULDNT you use it on a bunker or house? You'd be stupid not to. I find it easier to avoid a tank than a squad, thank you very much.

Switch

Back to CO targeting --- assuming you spot and get the white dot can you take him out? There's no ambiguity in a blinky white dot.

And as far as the comment of killing a CO is of little use, you've just not had many active CO's. The 30 seconds he's dead is a useful window especially if your guys are moving and not just defending. The 3 minutes he spends afterwards scanning the area around the base instead of keeping his eyes on the fight is equally important.

Lets set up a clear ROE for commanders as assets. I know under the current written rules they are not addressed are as such are not valid targets. Given they can be positivly ID'd (and I think .6 is making them visually distinct) can we get something written about taking them out when they lay in UCBs and main bases.

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|TG|Switch

Better known as:
That noob who crashed the chopper.
That noob who ran over the mine.
That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

Beatnik

The admins are currently discussing this in the admin forum. Obviously this is an issue that needs to be well thought out, and we need to come to consensus on it before clarifying the position. This includes and .6 changes to the role.

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eGoatBoy

Thank you to the admins for taking this under consideration.

I'm in agreement with Switch on this. Targeting an enemy CO should be valid IMHO.

As for the limited usefulness of this...well I recall an internal vanilla TG scrim where a small squad was tasked to take out the OpFor CO (Sassy comes to mind). Seemed a worthwhile endeavour then in one of TG's pinnacle games, and I don't recall any furor about it.

Also, I've been CO in a main base (week before last) where a squad came in to destroy arty, and also came after me. It was very effective as I lost several minutes of focus as CO while I tasked troops back to clear out the intruders, and defending myself. The matter became complicated because the main base may have come into play according to the PR AAS messages as well...

Regardless, the point being is that taking out the Commander has been a desireable strategy since war was invented, and should be so in our games. If the abscence of a commander is not a big deal (since he's been shot/knifed/wahtever) then why do we put so much effort in trying to make sure we have one in the first place. Smart CO's protect their assets, and find hidden corners to lie in to avoid being knifed.

My 2 cents.

Cheers,

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IOOB_583

The kicker on any ruling on this to favor it, IMO, is that camping to CO kill would become another reason to have an entire sq back at a UCB "defending themselves from the also spawning regular guys."

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Don't let the bastards grind you down!

7ShadesOSin

I agree that taking out the CO is a worthwhile exercise (yes, I'm backtracking, before anyone points it out )

I think the idea is more about keeping the OpFor out of the main base.

After all, if CO becomes a valid target, and he's well hidden, where do you draw the line at the OpFor wandering about the main base, claiming that they are "CO-hunting"? What about if he parks a vehicle up somehow so that it's impossible to take him out without destroying the vehicle (which would not be a valid asset at that point)? Sounds like it could get messy, and complicated.

Have fun, Admins!

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7Shades

How sweet, thought lifeless, yet with life to lie,
And, without dying, O how sweet to die!
- from Thomas Warton's "Ode to Sleep"

Sabre_Tooth_Tigger

Seems simple to me, attack only the three physical commander objects.

Dont attack anyone even if they spawn right next to you.

Dont attack returning aircraft, helicopters or vehicles unless you previously engaged and pursued it home from outside the ucb.

Its not ok to wait just outside the ucb in order to do any of the above.

I presume its ok to blow up a bridge close to a ucb, but is it ok to lay mines close to a ucb?


Yesterday I was blowing up a bridge with c4, saw a tank coming and ran off. I waited till he was over the c4 and blew him and bridge up. Im guessing that wasnt right really because it was an ambush but it shows how easily things get muddled once you go beyond simply destroying the three commander objects only

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eGoatBoy

It's complicated, most certainly PR makes it even more so.

As for the vehicle thing...in the encounter I described I did jump into an APC at one point to protect myself...no dice. Unfortunately, I don't recall if the base had come into play at that moment or not...because what I saw on Battlerecorder that resulted in my death was most certainly a rule violation if the base was in UCB mode...if not, then no problem.

Very complicated indeed...

Cheers,

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Ferris Bueller

Truly, there isnt a way to differentiate between the commander and anyone else at ANY point on the map, unless, like in BF2142, the commander's text is a different color in chat. Then you know his name.

For me, half the time, I dont look at who i'm killing. With PR, its even worse because theres no kill messages, so my kills are just "dead enemies" to me. If I kill Root and he happens to be the commander, I dont know I killed Root, much less that Root happened to be the commander!

However, as part of my mission yesterday, I spent a round on one of our 2142 servers leading a squad whose goal for the round was to keep the enemy assets down. We didnt camp the UCB, just kept returning to continually destroy the assets. At the onset, I gave very clear orders that our objective was only the assets, not vehicles or personnel and under no circumstances were we to engage enemy forces unless we were shot at first. Of course, we did get shot at, and we returned fire appropriately, but we didnt go on a killing spree, didnt camp and accomplished out objective. A big part of it: we killed the commander 4 times. We didnt do it on purpose, hell, we didnt even know he was the commander until after the round was over. But he thought it was a wise idea to engage a full squad of 6 that came in to destroy his assets all by himself. Turns out that it wasnt so smart.

So did we play within the rules? Yes.
Did the CO and other troops provoke us into retaliatory fire? Yes.
Was it a mistake for them to do so? Absolutely.
Did anyone complain that we were playing against the rules? Not once.

So i'd give that a fair vote.
Granted, that scenario doesnt apply to PR as much now as it will in 0.6 when the little command trailer becomes and important asset, but it's something to think about for future reference.

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|TG-6th|Ferris Bueller

eGoatBoy

Dark Viper's post makes it clear that you can at least identify the CO in the BF2 games...not sure about BF2142 though.

Cheers,

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stickyjeans69

i don't like where this could go, you could argue killing the Commander is fair, however he's only gone 30 seconds, so then what? you kill him again!, this will drive people away from Commanding and that's not what we need at the moment IMO

FlumBom

ok, this is the big problem in my eye's. So IF the CO becomes a valid target and if ID'd by the white dot works i sugest that:

1. You ONLY will be allowed to kill the CO with the knife, even if he starts shooting on you!
2.You have to ask and get a positiv kill order from your CO the second before the kill.

for exempel: i got order to destry assets, I find the CO laying in the middel of the UCB i go prom right behind him, and then ask my SL for a kill order, the SL have to ask the CO and then give the order to me. before i can kill him.

in that case i think that we could have the CO as an special "asset"

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A crazy solder from the deepest forests of Skåne, Sweden.

Root

Enemy vehicles / troops show up green on some peoples maps often enough to be a problem. COs are going to be easy enough targets in 0.6 if they're out in the field driving their little sandbag wagon around. Unless you're Dirtboy, in which case you'll just hide.

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