fuzzhead

ive been pushing for the minimum amount of spam as possible on the HUD...

of course TG server messages dont help heheh

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Sabre_Tooth_Tigger

Im getting about 2.1gig memory usage on basra , it does seem to use more for the moment anyway.

The civs can apparently stone the troops to death, more then a little annoying.


Morter class isnt working yet, they resemble plumbers at present

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Ferris Bueller

Morg, I agree with some of your points, but I'm not going to point-by-point address them as you did mine. However, I will point out that I never mentioned RP hunting with spec-ops squads, but referred specifically to taking out commander assets, which this change would make vastly more difficult.

Also, I think people are failing to see this in the larger scheme, and by larger, i mean exactly that. Some of the new maps coming out are HUGE. The current maps are tiny. You can run across one on foot in 4-5 minutes. Thats anywhere between 1-5km. So yeah, if your RP goes pop cause a flag got turned, you lose a couple minutes at most. But with a 16km wide map, you have the possibility of losing up to 20 minutes of gameplay having to run across the map. So while it might not be such a big deal on small maps, how often do you want to spend 20 minutes running just to get back to the fight?

Also, keep in mind that the opfor will be using those 20 minutes to advance, which is going to make it that much harder.

Now, as far as the offensive vs defensive stance of the game, sure, having a balance between offense and defense is nice if you have a big enough playerbase to support it. However, you get a map with lots of flags in a very large area and it becomes a bear to coordinate with only 30 people at your disposal. An appropriate tactic might be (assuming a full server, 5 6-man squads) to have two squads guard a flag, while the remaining 3 squads approach and tactically assault the next flag. While this is an optimal approach and as much as we'd all love to see this happen, it's simply not possible.

Why? Let's go back to the multi-flag scenario. Our example today: Sunset City. This map represents to me and impossible gameplay scenario with the current change. The US forces have 3 flags to immediately capture. Even with the best players possible, holding three flags simultaneously against a coordinated offensive will be impossible simply due to the fact that if one flag gets overrun, the defensive spawn positions of the other two flags have now been neutralized and it requires time to compensate. In a wide-open area, this might be easier to defend against with skilled marksmen who can pick off an entire squad several hundred meters away, but in an urban environment where you cant see your enemy approaching most of the time, it's not feasible.

People want to talk reality, and yes, its nice to dream about a day when "zerging" wont exist anymore, but the REALITY is that zerging does happen and will continue to happen. It's also a real life strategy, force in numbers. Have multiple offensively coordinated squads fall in simultaneously from multiple directions on a single objective with overwhelming numerical force. The gaming engine we deal with simply doesnt allow for us to have enough players to support a simultaneous multi-point defensive force and an offensive assault force.

So it leaves us with the decision: do we camp and let snipers get all the kills while the tickets go down at a snails pace, or do we take the guge risk and endanger the offensive/defensive RP's of the rest of the team by making a push?

I agree with sabretoothtigger's suggestion of a "cone of death" for RP's around a flag, perhaps at a radius of say 150m. I suggested this earlier, but I think it was largely overlooked. The reason for this being, (again, since everyone seems to be on the "reality" tip) in a real battlefield scenario, if one unit fails to protect or accomplish their objective, the rest of the units on other assignments are not automatically cut off from reinforcements. How does a CP going down several kilometers away from your position effect your ability to reinforce your soldiers realistically? It doesnt, but with this change, it's as if your entire command infrastructure was wiped out and forced to start from square one. However, with the "cone of death" scenario, it would simply simulate a real life situation in which an enemy force, by capturing the control point, has effectively cleared the area at a decent radius to ensure their safety and defensive stronghold.

Finally, to address stickyjeans: my criticisms on 0.6 have been thought out and formulated based on reading everything I can and doing my own research. Granted, I dont like the way some of the changes are being played out, but I express that in a rational manner and provide constructive criticisms and alternative solutions. Suggesting that I leave because I dont like it is completely uncalled for. I realize that my opinions might not have any particular bearing, but neither your criticism of my opinions nor the fact that they might not get anywhere beyond this thread, is going to stop me from expressing them. We do have several of the game developers who playe here and read the forums on a regular basis, so the chances of something thats said here having a measurable effect on the final outcome is larger than you might believe. I also welcome the changes that .6 brings, adding a new level of challenge, strategy and increased teamplay to the mod, but there are things that are going to have to be altered, as the game developers know. Feedback is a crucial part of that, so are formulated opinions of veteran players who can see problems that they might have overlooked. This is why we have threads like these to have civilized discourse about the things we approve of or disagree with. So in the future, if you have an opinion, you're more than welcome to state it, as always, but please refrain from making personal attacks on people. No offense intended.

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|TG-6th|Ferris Bueller

loyalguard

Your suggestion was the inspiration for my post in the PR forums that others there have agreed with. The devs hve said they are considering all aspects of the rally point logic before final implementation.

It's good to hash this stuff out though!

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|TG| LoyalGuard

Morganan

You have forgotten about firebases and bunkers. These are both spawn points, and don't get removed when you loose a flag like RP's do. I don't disagree with you at all that in the grand scheme these changes are going to end up being awful, much like the proposed medic changes would have been. Just because I like the differing layers this add's to the game, it doesn't mean it will end up being good changes for overall gameplay in the grand scheme, but more time and testing will be needed when .6 is less buggy to determine if the new system is better or worse. We sure can't tell now as the current beta version seems buggy as all get-out.

To counter your sunset city arguement:

Why not place a bunker near river village, and a firebase off to the south-east of market or South of construction. These give forward spawn points for your team. And remember, the loss of rp's works both ways, I can turn the sceniro around quite easily and say you spawn off a firebase and quickly re-take a flag, forcing them to possibly spawn back at main. These new bases are what spec-ops's squads will be all about destroying now. (well, building your teams, and destroying the other teams bunkers/firebases)

Sabre_Tooth_Tigger

Thats the mortar class in (non working) action there, make of it what you will


Forgot to mention earlier that tanks get triple zoom now and have a massive increase in viewpoint for the driver. Instead of looking out the hatch at the front, he is using the tv infrared camera right on top of the tank, one guy called it a periscope

Its allways been on the model but never used before, you can do a full 360 as quick as you like with it and it has zoom. The picture has an interlaced effect to it. Im not sure if it actually appears to swivel, probably not.


If you switch squads, you have to wait 2 mins before you can request a kit.

Officers can drive the engineer car. Normal officer gun appears to be a heavily scoped rifle, so only milita get the uzi and svd I guess

Commanders can produce massive truck transport vehicles

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jmaker

Has the recoil been greatly increased on the M16 or is that just me?

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stickyjeans69

no, i dont think its you, i noticed it when i first shot the thing

Ghost Dog

Aaaah, feedback .

Any screens of the new commander assets?

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Ferris Bueller

Heres my thoughts on it:
-Kit requests. Love em and hate em. Biggest problem I see is with the kit issue timer at round start. I think that we can all understand different load times and how they'll impact the 2:00 timer.

-Planes and Helos. Planes fly beautifully. On the ground, not so much. After about an hour of trying, I finally gave up on trying to get the F-16 off the ground because you cant taxi it (granted, this was in the bug report, but still). The helos fly much nicer now. Except for the littlebird. It flies like a moseler safe. The nose constantly drags down and it hurts my wrist to fly (god help you trying it with a mouse, you'll run out of desk space in 10 seconds from pulling up). Other than that, much improved.

-Tanks. Love the new double zoom. Killer for long range hunting. Now we can see some realistic tank battles. The periscope change is also top notch.

-Vehicles. They seem a bit more bumpy and a little more tense on the steering, but thats no big deal. Some of them also seem to have greatly reduced damage.

-Kit specifics:
∙Medic. DAMN YOU FUZZHEAD! You told me that my medic butt was saved with the whole "look at your feet and click" thing, but it's apparently not there, so I've had to resort to FD's. However, I did notice that after a period of time (unless I was standing on a resupply zone and didnt realize it), my FD's replenished themselves. Also, much more ammo for my gun. Not that I needed it, but hey, always nice.
∙USMC Kits in general. The M16 kicks about 2x as much. Not uncontrollable by any means, but you'll see the difference. Also, watch for stray bullets when standing, your shots are no longer pinpoint accurate on single shot unless crouched or prone. British kits also have much increased recoil, which means theyre not going to be the death machines that they are in 0.5.
∙LAT/HAT. Love em. Better range on the HAT zoom, but no double scope, which is fine by me. Also, theyre both requested kits now so hopefully, NO MORE LAT SNIPING! THANK YOU JESUS!
∙Commander/Officer kits. Scopes. Thank god. My biggest complaint was that I couldnt see the battle while hanging back without being defenseless as SL. Now I can see and shoot at people at the same time. Beautiful.
∙Civilians. Not sure how killing civilians is gonna effect people's scores, but I love the fact that they can throw rocks at you. Theyre also the only class with a grappling hook, which I dont get, seeing as normal people probably wouldnt have much use for scaling buildings. Especially in a war zone.

-Maps. The big maps are HUGE. I was flying my A-10 around the kashan (sp?) desert map. It took me almost 70 seconds to fly across it at full speed. Even in a littlebird at full tilt it takes 3 minutes. God help anyone having to run. I drove across it in an APC in 5:16. The night map is spectacular. For anyone who hasnt tried it, remember to press 7 to activate your nightvision or you wont be able to see. Beautifully laid out, lots of hiding spots. That map is going to be VERY challenging to play. I love it, but I bet a lot of people are going to hate it very quickly as you cant see the other guy coming 99.9% of the time.

-Al Basrah. Gorgeous. Look at the roof of the mosque...it's actually GOLD, with reflections! No longer just gold-ish brick looking crap. The destructable buildings are a major bonus too. Also, did anyone see NVCP? IT'S A FREAKING FORTRESS! No more just running in over a birm and nailing people, now theres 15 foot high fences, barbed wire, static gun emplacements and barricades! Also, no more A-10s. Yahoo! The one thing I did notice though was a lack of Jihad Cars. Theres lots of regular cars, but none of the little blue buggies we love so much. The new cars seat 6 and are much harder to blow up when ramming things. Damn sturdy Iraqi cars.

-Commander assets, bunkers, firebases. Nice additions, need a lot of tweaking as they consume massive amounts of manpower and time to build. They also can be destroyed by like 4 grenades. Kinda flimsy if you ask me. The commander support truck is awesome, but sluggish and not armored well.

All in all, from my few hours of playing, i'd rate the beta a very unpolished 8 of 10. I'm quite sore about the medic changes, but I can adapt to them and I'm sure they wont be permanent anyway. Other than that, I'm excited to get the beta server up and running so we can have some good quality testing going on. Just my two cents on the whole deal, i'm sure I'll have more later.

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|TG-6th|Ferris Bueller

loyalguard

Nice eval Ferris!

Regarding civilians with grappling hooks, this is how the PR guide explains it:

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|TG| LoyalGuard

ChernobylKinsman

Has the M-16s damage improved or is it now not only the worst rifle in the game but the worst rifle in any computer game ever?

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"It's nothing to do with Stalker, really"

Fishw0rk

Actually the recoil on the M16 has been slightly decreased. You may think it's been increased if you're playing as a Rifleman or Officer. Both of their M16s have an artificial 4x zoom (to simulate the scope that all riflemen/officers get) which makes it seem like the gun has more recoil. You'll notice the same effect with the MEC G3 and PLA Type 95. Their scoped variants seem to have more recoil than the iron sights version, but they really dont.

stickyjeans69

All in all, from my few hours of playing, i'd rate the beta a very unpolished 8 of 10. I'm quite sore about the medic changes, but I can adapt to them and I'm sure they wont be permanent anyway. Other than that, I'm excited to get the beta server up and running so we can have some good quality testing going on. Just my two cents on the whole deal, i'm sure I'll have more later.
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nice to see you decided to try it and think its fairly good, as i do. the medic however can heal you just look STRAIGHT down and click and hold the click

ChernobylKinsman

Thank goodness for that, fighting scoped G3s would have been an even bigger nghtmare than the type 95s.

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"It's nothing to do with Stalker, really"