Plan6

Giving the medics body armor is a huge help. In a toe to toe fight, the lack of body armor is very noticable and having it will improve their combat abilities. I hope that ammo bags also rearm field dressing quicker, making the medic -to- riflemen relationship even more important.

Being an avid medic play, approve of any change that can bring them closer to the front lines. Currently I dont feel safe trading gun fire with the eneny I know how easily I can get gunned down, leaving my squad without a medic. If the self healing needs to be removed or limited, I can live with that.

I hope the rumor that you have to heal people by aiming at them like a tank or APC is not true. Catching people with the medic bag is a pain, getting them to hold prefectly still would be miserable. Unless the healing only took half a second, I would like a very limited area of healing(back to back if necessary) rather than having to click to heal.

Morganan

I agree 200% with Ferris. This is a case where they make a change, and drape the reasoning for the change in the cloak of "realism". Let's face fact's, is it any more real to have a medic heal themselves in battle then to give the medic a "magical shock paddle" that allows them to not only bring the dead back to life, but be combat-ready inside of 15 seconds?

If they were really about slowing down gameplay and shooting for "realism with gameplay" they would start with removing shock paddles, as they are without question the most unrealistic part of the game.

Instead we get this bundle of garbage, yay!

ChernobylKinsman

While I don't think medic should be able to heal themselves with the bag, I do think we need more than 3 field dressings as I only ever use the one we get to free bodies (more often than not they can't be revived). This essentially make rifleman better at self healing due to their ability to constantly resupply their own dressings.

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"It's nothing to do with Stalker, really"

ednos

Again, Ferris is correct.

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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~ Bertrand Russell
I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~ Magna Centipede

Calvin

/me casts Prayer of Mending(Rank 5)

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|TG-33rd|Calvin

ChernobylKinsman

So.. I'm not entitled to my opinion as another frequent medic? If it were possible I'd prefer it if we could heal ourselves only when stationary, or at a slower rate than anyone else, but I don't think it is doable due to good old engine limitations.

I don't think it will be game-breakingly devestating, 9 times out of 10 I die from an explosion anyway and couldn't heal myself reguardless ¬_¬

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"It's nothing to do with Stalker, really"

Root

Of course you are. I think where Ednos was going, is that in addition to being a frequent medic in-game, Ferris knows this stuff IRL. That certainly gives his opinions much weight, assuming that he's not neglecting to tell us of the 200% mortality rate amongst those he treats.

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Ferris Bueller

200% Root? Give me some credit!

It's at least 350% on my ward (I have to go to other wards looking for people to kill)!

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|TG-6th|Ferris Bueller

SloppyJoe

Ferris, you're points and concerns are very well articulated and IMO valid and correct.

I'd like this add:

"Realism" can only go so far in a game such as this, where, while the server size can be large (64 players or so), the game only /simulates/ a large scale battle. This is mainly done through the re-spawn mechanism that gives the feel of a large battle, overall. Bearing this in mind, putting pressure on squads to allocate more than one medic seems to micro-size this simulation. I mean, in a given game, say 30 players overall re-spawn 10 times each, thats a simulation of; 300 men. With 300 men, why not have 12 man squads, which could easily afford 2 medics? Because that's a simulated number, we don't /really/ have 300 men on the field at the same time. The game has a certain reduction aspect to it when simulating a large scale conflict down to 30 or so players per side. Pushing the need for multiple medics, especially per squad which can only have 6 men, one of which should be doing officer duties, /severely/ puts this whole ratio in jeopardy. IMO, it definately isn't worth it, and while the medic may be viewed as over-powered (which I don't think they are), in some ways their powers simulate having medical resources in a large battle, and should be reflected as such.

You want to further micro-size things down for the sake of realism, bear in mind, most field medics would not be able to treat most combat wounds and get the soldier back in the fight. At best, bandage the wounds and give the soldier some morphine and try to keep him alive for a 160th medi-vac :P to get the wounded to a surgical hospital/aid station away from the frontlines. Where that soldier would have to probably stay in post-op for at least a few days, depending on the wound, before sending him back to the fight (or ship him home). I don't think getting caught up in realism such as this would do this game any bit of good.

I see a lot of arguments supporting "realism" of medics, but not bearing that this game is also very clearly, maybe even so clear it's transparant, based on the mechanics of reducing a large scale battle down to 30 something people acting as if they are the large forces. And in such a reduction, certain "realisms" are going to have to be thought of from that perspective. Pushing for such realisms can very well break the core mechanics of this game.

On another note, I too am saddened by the reduction of assets, particularly helos. It's hard to simulate large battles without them. The sound of jets flying by, helos setting down and taking off, armor rolling through the streets, jeeps honking, these things set this game apart from the rest.

Take these things away and PR will just turn into a larger version of America's Army. Yawn.

My 2 ducats.

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SloppyJoe

Oh yeah... I see a few people talking about amounts of field dressings a medic should get in relation to their use to unstick bodies. Instead of putting the solution on how many field dressings, why not fix the stuck body bug?

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ednos

Well, in case you haven't been informed, my opinions are correct *by definition*. This leaves no room for argument. In any case, what I was saying there was that Ferris's arguments already invalidated yours, in my opinion (meaning it's a fact). He already addressed all of your points and backed up his conclusions with parallels from real life, which are relevant in a *simulation of realism*.

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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~ Bertrand Russell
I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~ Magna Centipede

ChernobylKinsman

Hehe, fair enough, my opinions are usually wrong anyway =)

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"It's nothing to do with Stalker, really"

Lith1um

I fly occasionaly, mostly for enjoyment. Mainly I lead infantry squads when I have the chance. I'm not an air whore by any shot. I enjoy PR beyond description, but I don't like or understand where the mapping situation is at. I'm getting tired of small scale, lifeless, infantry based maps.

I don't fly much, but as an infantryman I love the feeling of havoc breaking out everywhere on the battlefield. I like that I have to avoid armor, fear attack choppers, and become terrified when I see a bomber on an approach vector. Imo that is what makes BF2 such a great game. Now, here at |TG|, we seem to have removed all but the infantry based maps from the rotation, and the PR crew seems to be slowly removing some of the vehicle influenced maps from the mod.

I like some of the upcoming changes in .06, such as the bunkers. But I fear that the maps and the dry playing style of those maps may eventualy alienate me. It feels like someone took BF2 and put it in a tiny box. The America's Army comment i found particularly relevant. Imo the rotation should never include more than 50% infantry maps. It feels like a 24/7 karkand server where the maps play the same but the scenery changes.

Imo this mod cry's out for some good maps as the biggest need.

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[sbf]Joeboo

For the sake of realism, I'm going to keep a belt sander next to my keyboard, turn it on, and drop it into my nekkid lap everytime I die to simulate true to life pain of death. *note to devs* Please increase spawn time to enable crotch triage.

Of course, I'm being ridiculous. I would have thought Ferris's examples would have been sufficient to denote that, while the obvious intention of Project Reality, is realistic, true to doctrine gameplay...it is still a game. To this end, as a community with a shared interest, it is incumbent upon us to determine what the line between reality, and a game should be, and or look like.

Should I spritz myself with a waterbottle to simulate the REAL heat represented in the game? Would doing so add anything to the gameplay, or highlight any other aspects/features, we all find desirable? I am suggesting that we approach issues like these with a grain of salt.

I too default to playing a medic, and I would sooner trade in my weapon than I would the tools specific to my kit, namely the bandages, and my medic bag, particularly when it comes to using it on myself. I think it would be 'realistic' to double or even quadruple the amount of time it takes for an injured medic to heal themself or someone else....something in line with the time ammo bags take to resupply you. What about the possibility of assigning a supply value to the medic bag that must be replenished just like bandages or ammo? The more serious the wound, the more resources required to heal/revive the fallen or wounded.

I empathize with wanting to handicap the medic in some ways. It makes sense to a degree...for instance who here has ever been reivived by a medic that didn't even check your immediate perimeter, just to get you both waxed upon that first "I'm over here come shoot me and this dumba$$ medic" gasp? *note* I've been that medic to some of you.....sorry teehee

Seriously though, the medic doesn't need body armor...being quick and nimble is more important to the function of the role....I shouldn't be able to jump out in the middle of a road and 'absorb' damage of any kind as I'm reviving someone that probably shouldn't be revived in the first place until the immidiate area is clear. Sometimes your back is up agains the wall, and you've got to take risks, but these types of actions should be the exception, not the rule.

Speaking of reviving...i wouldn't be aversed to removing the Jesus paddles. It seems ridiculous to me that it takes less time to 'patch up a wound' than it does to bring a dead man back to life. Come to think of it, more often than not, as a SM I will get seperated from my squad chasing after a SM that wandered too far out, and get capped myself, thus compounding the burdeon to the rest of my squad. So hell, in the long run, it might not only be more realistic to get rid of the paddles, it might actually tighten up the way folks play the class? Who knows?

TY that is all.

ednos

Recall that in PR you have to heal the revived from almost no health. It's not the ridiculous Vanilla BF2 shock paddles, which really earned the religious name. The paddles serve a very useful purpose though: you don't lose tickets if you're tactful about placing medics.

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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~ Bertrand Russell
I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~ Magna Centipede