Jeepo_SAS

I totally understand tempus, but im not just talking about LAT here, im talking HAT as well as LAT, and its uses in sniping infantry. I know there were a lot of complaints made last night about 2 people in particular, who were doing just that, and other things, openly breaking the rules, then playing dumb, but if that dumb, shouldnt be on the PW server. Sorry for the disrespect, but im just about getting sick of all the Bull that is happening guys, shape up or please just ship out.

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|TG-22nd|Jeepo

The Triple R's

gerardnm

One of the things that hinders reporting people for Dolphin Diving and other breaches in the rules is that there's no kill confirmation (yes i know i'm gonna be flamed).

Is there a point in it coming back on PW nites?

Ferris Bueller

As with all things in this mod, I believe there needs to be a distinction. In some cases, "L-AT sniping" might be acceptable. An example of this would be the role of the RPG. The RPG is used in real life as an anti-personnel weapon, though relatively infrequently and from long range. With the USMC forces, the equipment is clearly labeled "Rifleman - ANTI TANK", so you should know better.

Now, I must confess myself guilty of doing it last night on EJOD, but my reasoning was simple: I was in an anti-tank squad on the MEC side and had 0 bullets left in my gun and we didnt have any resupply (probably dumb, but it was relatively chaotic where we were). Now, seeing as I dont have throwing knives, i'm going to use whats left in my arsenal to defend myself, but I doubt that's going to get me in trouble as it shows mitigating circumstances.

For the other issues addressed here, such as vehicle kills, if you're laying prone in the desert alone and a humvee comes by and plows you over, you cant call foul play. Nobody in their right mind is going to stop and risk getting shot just to open up on you when they can do it easier by running you over. On the other hand, if you have a full squad with you and someone tries to mow you down, thats unacceptable. We had a guy try to do that last night on EJOD and get got nailed with an RPG at literally the last second, causing his exploding humvee to go flying over our heads.

Gerard: for the names, as a SM, you have the ability to review the battlerecorder files. If you see an infraciton and cant catch a name, download the battlerecorder file, find yourself in it at the approximate time it happened, pause it and look for the person who did it. They shouldnt be hard to find. You can then use retroactive reporting to take care of it.

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|TG-6th|Ferris Bueller

aculle01

The problem is the use of LATs as primary weapons rather than their intended purpose. I am all for using the LAT to take down a defensive position, clear a room or bunker and might even accept the use of an LAT on a group of enemy who bunched up. But I cannot tolerate the use of LATs on lone soldiers. There have been way too many times where I have seen people deliberately switch from their rifle to the LAT to eliminate a target who seemed to be getting the better of them.

Getting caught in the open or surprised while carrying the HAT is really not that good of an excuse. Quit running around everywhere and move with support and you will not run into those do-or-die situations.

As for whose responsibility it is to enforce the rules, its the individual's responsibility first and foremost to understand and follow the rules. I have no idea why this is even being debated. If using LATs to take out individual targets on a regular basis was a viable tactic both fiscally and practically, everyone of our troops would be equipped with one. But it is obviously not a viable tactic and thus does not occur beyond those special cases where the troops have expended every other possible course of action.

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"I once thought I had mono for an entire year. It turned out I was just really bored."

Terminal Boy

The real RPG is used as an anti-personnel weapon because it has 2 different warhead types designed for expressly for this purpose, one a standard fragmentation warhead (OG-7V) and a thermobaric one (TBG-7V).

The PRM version differs wildly as you get a warhead that can destroy lightly armoured vehicles and has the splash damage of a hatful of frag grenades.

As you can't tell what flavour of AT you've just been hit in face by (a feature I wholeheartedly approve of!), I'm suggesting a "Don't use AT on infantry" rule until a later version of PRM could implement L-AT and H-AT with zero splash damage.

Jeepo_SAS

second that!

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|TG-22nd|Jeepo

The Triple R's

Grunt 70

I was killed at least 8-10 times last night by LAT on Helmand Province...all of them seemed to be LAT snipes...eventually I couldn't take it anymore and typed out in text what a Lame o tactic it was. Not the best way to handle it but you know the response was worse...it went something like:

..." well, your team is doing it alot too and you don't see us complaining"

Not a good sign for either side.

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|TG-22nd|Grunt



"When force is necessary, it must be applied boldly, decisively, and completely. But one must know the limitations of force; one must know when to blend force with maneuver" - Leon Trotsky

Tronchaser

Guys, if I cry foul everytime someone had broken the rules on the TG server, I would spend all my time reporting, and NO TIME PLAYING. I get run over, sniped with H-AT, L-AT rounds ALL THE TIME. I just go on about my business. It doesn't matter to me how I got killed. It's war, even if it's virtual. I come back in a few seconds.

Jeepo_SAS

If you dont report the breaking of the rules, imho, you are part of the problem, how can we expect to clean up the server otherwise?

Please guys, report the problems, no point complaining on the forums if you dont report in games, we are obliged to.

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|TG-22nd|Jeepo

The Triple R's

RazersEdge

I personally think that all RPGs should be of the HE variety, if you want truth... An AT-4 can penetrate armor on a modern MBT. Insurgents do not have access to thermobaric warheads, plain and simple. I do agree that LAT should not be used on single soldiers, it is a perfectly legitimate and tactically sanctioned practice to use them to clear buildings, and attack groups of infantry when a grenadier is unavailable. And when it comes to grenadiers, I see them rarely used, and even more rarely used effectively. I do agree that LAT should be a requestable kit. I do not believe we need to make the AT kits have no blast radius vs infantry however, because that is even more unrealistic than it is right now. A rocket will kill an infantryman, plain and simple. There are many changes that need to be made, but this is a beta.

Truth be told, things SHOULDN'T be ballanced, because that is not reality. If it were reality, each and every USMC soldier would be wearing Interceptor Body Armor, capable of stopping 7.62mm bullets, and I'd be firing a Javelin to take out an enemy sniper in a building far off, not screwing around trying to sneak up on him and knife him. And a Javelin is a LOT more powerful than an SRAW I'll tell you that right now.

Steiner

Using L-AT (as the AT4) against soft targets, as infantry, is in my opinion a legit tactic. Firing a rocket into a group of enemy infantry; or into an enemy strongpoint; into a building etc is what it can be used for in RL. L-AT is basically worthless against armour [ie tanks] and to use an AT4 against a modern tank is suicidal and reckless. Lightly armoured vehicles, jeeps, buildings and groups of infantry are the targets to go for. If someone fired a rocket against me while I was standing close to a wall or anything, and killed me, I would not think anything of it since it is designed to work that way in spite of its 'directional explosion' [dont know the term in English]. I am how ever annoyed at those who use, as an example the AT4, at point plank range against infantry since it is unreal. The safety-distance before the rocket is armed does not excist in the game, and make such use gamey to me.

Those using H-AT to snipe infantry, or use it against infantry in any way, should in most cases have their heads examined. True, this is only a game, but using H-AT against infantry is a complete vaste. In RL so would it also not work very well since most H-AT missiles also have a directional explosion, rendering them utterly worthless against infantry unless that infantryman happen to stand some 60cm under the missile when it comes flying. In game, H-AT are effective against infantry, but I see it as gamey since I have been a loader on a heavy AT-missile system and know that its doesn´t work against infantry.

Not saying that I hold the truth or anything, its just how I see it and act with these weapons in game.

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|TG-6th|Steiner

Can't work out how to have several different images [such as banners and ribbons] in the signature, so I will drop that project for now...




"-He has a wife, you know. Do you know what she's called? 'Incontinentia'... Incontinentia Buttocks."

RazersEdge

While you are right Steiner, a heavy AT rocket will often times be used in real life against snipers in buildings, I know SRAWs and Javelins are commonly used specifically for this purpose. I have a friend who is in the 101st as TOW gunner on a Humvee and he is trained that his weapon is extremely effective against entrenched snipers, however he is also trained to use it against vehicles. Which considering todays political status, he'll be slamming missiles into T-72s and T-80s in not too long...

Tronchaser

Jeepo, I really don't consider myself a part of the problem. I really don't. I go to the TG server because I want to have fun, and let me clarify my definition of fun.

Fun for me is working with an active squad pursuing the goal (flag or whatever). It really doesn't bother me how I die in game. It really doesn't. I couldn't care less, unless it has some tactical significance for the squad/team.

Maybe fun for you and others is the pursuit of "real-life" tactical uses for all in-game weapons and whatnots.

But not for me. I'll call back squadmates who are camping the UCB, but I'm not on the server to play rules nazi everytime I get capped by a L-AT.

Difference of opinion I suppose.. /shrug

mingmong

That's great that you want to have fun, but it's not really fair to do so by completely disregarding other people's experiences. If people are having issues enforcing a rule, how hard is it for you to type out one sentence into chat, starting with "REPORTING:..."?

Sabre_Tooth_Tigger

The pistol given with the HAT is actually pretty accurate. Ive killed two troops in a row with it at close quarters. Its not powerfull but its more accurate then a rifle as far as I can tell.

I dislike the whole rules as directives thing. Ideally the game itself dictates gameplay and various limitations. The real glitch here is not how people choose to use their light or heavy rocket but the resupply issue.

If theres to be a directive maybe it should be that you cant or shouldnt continually resupply from ammo bags. I understand its not possible to limit this at present unfortunately.
Resupply from a crate or vehicle makes more sense and eventually those avenues dry up naturally.

Preventing ammo bags from resupplying the ammo guy who dropped them would restore some balance. In return he could receive 5 ammo bags and be able to resupply from crate/truck. That'd force the HAT and buddy to touch base a bit more often, making them vunerable and less of a loner/sniper type dynamic. Obviously that change would be a bigger issue but thats my suggestion.

LAT is unguided and not in the same league as HAT imo. You can tell the two apart because HAT has a sharper air searing sound effect to it just before a strike. Taking the second scope zoom away from HAT would also help stop the sniping though it is used for tanks on EJOD, etc And/or give them one rocket only



I think running people over is ok if you are on route to somewhere. You just cant continually use it as a weapon because it exploits ping and collision detection issues in the game engine, ie. its not realistic
If you see someone while driving and turn to run them over before they can stick a rocket in you, great. If you then turn round and go back for a second swipe when you have the opportunity to escape, then you've crossed the line imo

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