asch

There are dedicated admins to the PR game. Separating it out would only lead to less backup from other BF admins. I'm sure many players have called on lucky shot to help them out in PR. Breaking these teams down would only eliminate lucky as a resource to help.

Many of the admins focus on one game/mod, yet provide backup to others when called. At this time there is no justification for breaking the team apart.

Unfortunately there are technical issues with some players trying to play BF2 and run TS. It often results in one or the other not working.

We'd love to any ideas on how to catch issues like those. As you've pointed out, there is little means to catch some of these infractions.

The pause function does have some issues. It can cause some players to lose sounds, get disconnected, and even bring down the whole server. That's a good thought though, just a buggy function.

I wouldn't even say that the players need to watch the BFR files. If we can get a report of the problem in a timely manner (before the file disappears off the server) then we can look at it ourselves.

Excellent quote.

__________________
| My Maps

Gaming Videos by Tactical Gamers

Fear the Frog! | Kill the Frog! | An Inconvenient Truth

"Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine, regardless of the level of advantage, if any, it gives over the opposing team." -- Tactical Gamer Primer

Perro

well i dont know if this post is just for the pass nights, im talking about the others days, also i dont care if all the [TG] play in one side or they just go in both teams because as a team i love to play with my [OBC] brothers and we play in 1 side when the server is full. teabagging is funny if you see someone teabaggin a teammate just kill him he will not be able to do something because he is focus in bringing some tea to the dead body so is a easy kill, also bunny hoping sometimes is posible and sometimes is something u cant control (or at least i cant, im too used to play the normal game) so you dont have to punish this kind of behaviour or at least thats what i think.

i think the whole problem is we or [TG] is getting lots of bad ppl joining the server, ppl who trash talk, swear, dont follow orders from a SL or Commander and thats is just bad, and i know not everyone will follow orders or like 1 guy say to me 1 time i was commanding "dude just let me play i will not do whatever you say so STFU" when i have this as a commander i just mute that squad and dont give any other orders but i dont give suplies, arty or vehicles drop. ppl have to know this PR mod is to play with tactics and what is the fun of keep doing all by yourself if you cant do RAMBO mode like in vanilla or 2142.

So be advice or i will like to say im reporting some TG (no names) who dont act like a regular guy in the server and im not saying all the ppl who wear the TG tags are bad, most of the ppl are really cool and they want to work togheter and help you to achieve a victory.

the only admin i know is asch so just keep and eye on the TG ppl and try to erase all the bad apples because they are giving a bad name to your comunity.

my 2 cents

__________________

Ferris Bueller

Also, remember that SM's have an important tool at their disposal: BATTLERECORDER! If you witness a problem, download the BFR file, watch your own character until you get to the exact time it happened (you can run BFR in fast-forward, so you dont have to sit there through an hour of gameplay), pause it and cycle through the players until you figure out whodunnit. Then PM an admin. Simple as that.
EDIT: Yes, i realize that was said about 2 posts ago, but it's still just as valid.

Also, addressing this:
I, for one would like to say that anyone wearing a TG tag who decides to take it on themselves to break the rules they're supposed to be following deserves to be beaten to a pulp. Allow me to remind everyone that wearing the tag means that you KNOW and UPHOLD the rules. Not just here, EVERYWHERE. It doesnt matter if you're drunk, stoned, sober, your wife just left you or the man next door just shot your dog. When you're in colors, you're in colors and you act appropriately. So Perro, if you see anyone wearing a TG tag breaking the rules, please report them IMMEDIATELY. The same goes for anyone else who observes anything of the sort.

Also, for the record: I've heard some nasty things being said about people in the community not following CO orders when they are SL, myself being included in this group. I'd like to point out that often times the CO is not aware of whats going on out on the battlefield, so if a SL chooses to decline your orders or takes longer to carry them out than you see fit, you need to understand that being CO doesnt give you absolute authority. If I'm pinned down at a flag and my squad is defending with all their might, I'm not going to jump up and go attack the next flag in line just because my CO thinks I should. I'm going to use my own judgment in accepting or declining the orders and continue doing my job to the best of my abilities. Anyone who has a problem with that logic needs to re-evaluate their position. The same logic carries to the SL/SM level as well. This doesnt give license to go running off and do your own thing if your SL tells you not to, but if you are somewhere doing something that needs to be done and your SL tells you something, use your best judgment and explain the situation. Blind obedience isnt a requirement of this game. Smart, tactical thinking is.

__________________
|TG-6th|Ferris Bueller

Morganan

Before I get into this post, I want to say up front I mean no disrespect to anyone. I will keep the post generalized so nobody thinks I am talking about them.

The first and foremost that should be addressed is the admin presence. It's unrealistic to expect an admin to be on at all times, but many of the admins for PR rarely if ever play the game other then to deal with infractions. Admin presence on the servers means a lot. Seeing the "admin message" from a player in-game does more to stop issues from arising then any other possible remedy one could think up. 23 admins and not more then a handful play anything that could even be remotely considered regularly. Nobody expects admins to be on 24/7, but shouldn't the admin pool in a specific game come from players who regularly play the game? The current admin approach seems to be reactive, as in wait for people to log on TS and complain. My question is why would these people want to be an admin for a game they rarely if ever play? You see the list with 23 BF admins and think you have plenty, but you really only have 2 or 3 who play the game anything remotely close to regularly, and another 2 or 3 who play occasionally.That seems to be a recipe for disaster even before the random people join.

Then we can move onto issue #2, actually dealing with the problems. I don't think I am alone in being able to cite chapter and verse of times when admins selectively enforce the rules. I have already had situations where admins are online and playing when I was told to take SS's of infractions and pm them via the forums! It's asking a bit much to have players cut into their playing "experience" and then have the admin do nothing because they don't want to cut into their "playtime" don't you think? Maybe they are unwilling to take action because their actions get overturned or they get chastised for trying to fix problems, I can't comment on that but something needs to change.

I will admit the mod does little to help server admins. It is silly the PR team can't just change the "spam" to read for example instead of
Morgan[knife]noob
to
Morgan[killed]noob

I don't see how your killer being "nameless" helps anything but rulebreakers and exploiters. It's not like seeing the name magically gives away his position. The intent to make people play the game for something other then kills is noble, but in the end I think we can all agree it hurts the game by limiting the tools server admins have at their disposal.

Then lastly the "grey areas". I see so many abuses of these it isn't even funny.

-Intentionally glitched RP's. Yes, I said intentionally. When I drop a RP that's glitched, as soon as I can drop another one I "unglitch" it. Anyone who say's they haven't been in a squad where people cheered over voice when their RP was glitched needs to get out of the locked squads and deal with the pubbers like the rest of us.
-Rules Lawyering. Instead of placing the mine under the tanks treads in the UCB, the mines get laid 50 meters outside of the UCB when the AAS messages dictate they should be nowhere near there. Typically those types of offenses occur either when there is no CO, or when people are just ignoring the CO because of no admin presence.
-Team switching/stacking. There are a few players who not just I have noticed that at the first sign of trouble for their team, they switch to the other team quickly. Or they want to be on the side with specific people/equipment and will unbalance the teams knowing the auto-balance will just put someone else over there. That can lead to situations where one side gets the ever-loving crap kicked out of them for round after round. Anyone who thinks their personal enjoyment, SM or not is worth the risk of ruining 31 other people's enjoyment (who also might or might not be SM's) because of stacked teams is part of the problem, not the solution.

Nobody even wants to talk about the 3 issues with grey area's in the rules I just brought up, but they do as much to ruin peoples gameplay as any bunny-hopper ever could. How in the world can you expect an admin team who (for the most part) rarely even plays the mod to even begin to address those issues? You don't, you just learn to accept them.

I'm going to stop writing now as I've spent almost an hour on this damned novel, but I feel better getting it off my chest.

Steiner

I too have been a bit surprised during PW-nights, with some rounds being more unorganized than normal pub-nights, and I imagine that is not really the purpose.

But, how if TG make PW-nights even more exclusive? That the various passwords then to get feets and in some cases end up at players who are not really suited for PW-nights, why not organized PW-nights in a similar fashion as night-clubs with a form of guest-list?

This might take some time though, but is it possible to have the server accept only players that have their player-ID listed somewhere? I mean, it do work for the supporting-member kick script, but can it be used to only grant certain player-ID´s access to it in the first place? Such list would of course concist of TG-players [which I will assume will play to follow the rules of the server and act accordingly] and "trusted freinds" of the TG-community/server [ie players from other clans who know what it is all about].

Any new additions to such list would have to be upon recommendation from other players [primarily TG-players]. The normal PUB-nights will be a chance for people to show their "worth" if they want to get onto the list.

If people misbehave and break the rules during a PW-night, an immediate kick with a possible ban [i.e. removal from the list] can be used as a method to keep the server as desired.

I mean, the TG-servers do have a very good reputation overall and it would be a pity if the PW-night would not be the best TG has to offer.

__________________
|TG-6th|Steiner

Can't work out how to have several different images [such as banners and ribbons] in the signature, so I will drop that project for now...




"-He has a wife, you know. Do you know what she's called? 'Incontinentia'... Incontinentia Buttocks."

Lith1um

Personaly I think the PR server just needs admins who actualy play the mod frequently, not just those who respond when summoned.

The presence of an Admin tag alone prevents 99% of the problems we are experiencing on the average day.

Imo we should have at least 9 PR regulars with admin status, arranged in 3 shifts.

One thing I firmly believe, servers with little visible admin presence would do much to harm our prefered style of play and compromise our code of ethics.

__________________

gerardnm

gotta agree with above on the admin presence.

How do you do battle recorder?

Root

You're not wrong on the level of visible, in-game adminstration and it's effects. On the matter of shifts, let me speak as one who has been a TG Game Officer and therefore has some experience. It ain't never gonna happen. You simply cannot ask volunteers to work to a rota. Sure, boosting your numbers generally means you'll get greater coverage, but even in peak hours you just can't guarantee an admin will always be around. Admins give up their time to serve the community and as long as they're around enough that they're doing sufficient to warrant them holding the title, that's as much as you can ask of them.

We have to be realistic about our expectations here.

__________________

mingmong

What's wrong with this, if the CO does nothing to actively prevent it? Mining the road 50m outside of the UCB is no different from mining it 150 or 300m away. It's still outside the UCB, and provided that if the miners have a visual on the UCB and they follow the proper rules of engagement regarding UCB assets and players inside it then what's the problem?

EDIT - And following AAS orders is NOT mandatory. Only CO/SL orders are.

gerardnm

I agree

w.WAREHOUSE

Perhaps the devs could change AT kits to require a "heat lock" onto armor like that of the stingers. AT fires only after a lock onto the vehicle, much like a Javelin missle system. Then, people couldn't fire them off at anything else like infantry. I know the A10s box the armor, so it's already in the code somewhere...


For those that get AT sniped or citrus tea bagged: if you take a SS and look at the exact time of the occurrance, you can then download the BattleRecorder video and fast forward to the event, pause it, then switch around players until you find the 6 year old...quick fraps of the 5 second foul and an admin has a much easier job of taking out the trash.

Gahlas

I for one think the admins are doing a fantastic job on the server. If you report something, you will get a response. In all of my time playing vanilla, PoE, PR here every time I have reported something I have gotten a response. Usually it is almost immediately. The players COMPLAINING are the ones that need to step it up. Constantly bombarding the forums about play quality isn't doing crap. It is just making dissent and an uncomfortable atmosphere which is the reason I no longer play. You guys act like there is a conspiracy from the higher-ups to keep the player down. Grow up, report problematic players, use voice, text, anything in-game to remind them of the rules and stop complaining! Do something about it! Be proactive.

As for the password nights, I am not sure if this will work but how about a PM signup/RSVP sort of thing. The admins could setup an account you must PM to request the password (include your in game name) then you will get a PM back with the password. If you don't cause any trouble, next week you will get the new password without asking for it. Anyone screwing up in this sort of event could get a lengthier ban ~ permanent or perhaps a month.

Oh and did I miss something, is rocket use against infantry not allowed anymore? This is always debated but I didn't think a rule had been created recently. I read the rules pretty frequently to refresh and I didn't see anything.

ednos

I think we should give Dirtboy's suggestion a chance. An alternative is to have the private server default to the same PR setup as the public server (plus the password) and have more supporting members just play on that one normally.

__________________
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~ Bertrand Russell
I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~ Magna Centipede

Bc2ID

If every round had two CO's on each side then they could work together to ensure that the server rules are being followed. If someone reports an issue and you are the SL of that squad, investigate! If someone claims "tea-bagging" and your squad just ran through that area, police your squad! Guys, it is less about winning and more about playing by the server rules. I can vouch for an admin (not that he needs it) as actively playing last night as he was in my squad. Some of the admins do play, some do not. It is more about policing ourselves to ensure the rules are followed. I go by the motto of use all you available tools before elevating the issue. I can remember one instance where I was Co'ing against Root and he raised some issues about base camping. I investigated and determined that our forces were not near their main base. I even went so far as to take screen shots and had them on stand-by incase he wanted to view them. Commanders need to ensure that their teams are following the rules. Take corrective action if you see errors, report them over chat, notify the squad leaders to reign in their squad mates, do something as opposed to nothing. It is far more rewarding to win a round by following the "TG way" than by base camping, kit whoring, At sniping, bunny hopping etc etc etc. If we all work together and police our own, then we can make this community better. By all means if you cannot resolve the issue, PM and Admin! We pay for this server to run it by the rules so .... "lead, follow, or get out of the way!!!"

We have all made mistakes along the way and I by no means am perfect, just ask Jeepo and Meddler how many times I have TK'd them. Just learn from your mistakes and try and distribute your knowledge to others to prevent the same mistake from happening. For those of you that see infractions and do nothing about them...well sorry but you are part of the problem. Trying to ignore a problem leads to the issue that is at hand presently.

For those of you that accused Root of being a troll, shame on you! Shame on you! Not that he needs to be defended, but he does his utmost to ensure that the Primer is followed. We need more of him, not less.....

I'll get off the soap box now.....

__________________

Morganan

If we are playing steel thunder and I have to dodge enemy mines in my tank as chinese 50 meters outside of my base while we hold the bridge checkpoint CP and are fighting over village I would say the player(s) out mining that road are useless to their team. You aren't helping your team win, you are helping it loose, yet I see that crap all the time rationalized exactly how you are doing it. Hop on an empty server or a private server if your goals aren't "help my team win the map". When I CO I try and stop all those worthless missions right away. I say try because either the admins don't agree and dont do anything to help the few times one is on,(I'm assuming missions of that nature aren't ok when the CO is saying "I need you here") or there isn't one on so I get ignored or tuned out by people who "selectively follow orders".

Answer me this, what good is cutting off enemy resupply/logictics when you are getting overran?