Fireteams

**Gonzo2-22** · 06-29-2007 11:16 PM

I was wondering if there was anything about further splitting squads into fire teams with fire team leaders in further versions?With the game getting farther into the realism aspect I think it would be a good addition to lift the burden off the SL having to micromanage each member.That is if its at all possible with the bf2 engine.Ive even seen it improvised in game.

**EBODude** · 06-29-2007 11:53 PM

You would have to ask the PR dev team that. I'm sure they've brought the question up already though.

**Dirtboy** · 06-29-2007 11:59 PM

I know that the 1 MIP does this. But I seldom do it. I like to micro-manage every aspect of my Squad and it seems to work out. But there are times where I will splt the squad up to cover one another across a wide open area or when we go sniper hunting

**TheSkudDestroyer** · 06-30-2007 12:02 AM

1sMIP does a good job implementing it, but it can be very, very frustrating. The only time I'll split my squad is to flank or attack from 2 directions very very fast. Generally, I want my squad within 20 m of eachother, and 1 medic on me. It's hard to split a squad, because you usually want 1 AT guy with you in the squad, and 1 medic. Spawning becomes an issue, and its harder to keep things organized.

It's a good idea if you want a sniper-spotter, or a special 2 guy fireteam to go out with AT's and Rifleman...but really, I'm not for splitting of squads.

**AbyssGaze** · 06-30-2007 02:03 AM

It allways depends on what squad members you have, fortunately alot of people on the TG server dont need to be micromanaged.

**Sabre_Tooth_Tigger** · 06-30-2007 02:18 AM

I dont like the idea of the squad being grouped up at all even into two sections.
They should be spread out as far as possible depending on the surroundings.

Sure if they need heals or have just spawned then thats a weak time, otherwise why make yourselves a bigger target.

vs

**Top Cat AJA** · 06-30-2007 04:32 AM

Firstly every thing about the BF2 sqaud system is H to the A to the R to the D to the C to the O to the D to the E to the D!

About a year ago i suggested a system where by the squad system displays two fireteams and to join the squad, you actualy have to join a fireteam. The FT leader also has a basic order system, on par with the present SLs system or better BUT the SL would then recieve a much muhc improved system where by he could set multiple waypoints and similar ext.

THis is impossible of course, therefore it is up to the average TG player and SL to bear all the brunt of organizing fireteams.

First thing to understand about trying to implament fireteas is:
You must have some idea how to take advantage of the squads increases flexablity. Flexablity in movement and firepower.

Without some idea, there is really no point in having them, this would seem obvious but it is uterly crucial for the worthwhile and therefore effective use of FT's.

However the sheer complexity of actualy organizing fireteams and keepign them organized prevents, what should be realitively easy development and implamentation of tactics around them.
This is a real shame becuase everything else about PR is becoming increasingly realisticaly brillaint but the squad system, the very thing that actualy makes PR is uterly stagnent in development.

In the very early version of PR (0.2 and 0.3) the use of the tactics and fireteam in particular was many many times less usefull than they are in 0.6. Theerefore the need for greater tactics will always grow but the squad systme willl just leave players with ever more work to do in the forfilling of this need. SUCKS

**BeerHunter** · 06-30-2007 09:31 AM

I may be day dreaming here and have limited PR experience but don't see why a squad of 6 couldn't be broken down into:

1 SL (who could request support form other squads as needed)
1 Medic
2 fire team of 2 consisting of specialty (ie AT, AA,support etc.) with rifleman as support and ammo.

Of course you'd need maximum co operation amongst players so even though it potentially could be done , odds of it being successfully done are pretty slim since it's only a video game and player attendance is for all levels of game play and experience.

**Gonzo2-22** · 06-30-2007 10:00 AM

Thats exactly what i mean TOP,squads would be able to flank a lot more effectively,react to contact with more suppression and movement and just be plain flexible.A lot of this hope is just from being in the military and seeing how effective having a full 8 man squad(minus Sl)can be for maneuvers.But if its hard coded then its just gonna have to be improvised.

**fuzzhead** · 06-30-2007 11:28 AM

sabre tooth:: awesome pics!

you dont know how many times i have to tell players to stop bunching up, your all gonna die by one grena *BOOM* - all squaddies dead.

**Top Cat AJA** · 06-30-2007 11:45 AM

Aswell as understanding that what tactics you employ, however basic to do with Fireteams is as important as how you organize them, one must also realize that fireteam organization and use is always a continuing process of development. There is no one perfect or precise way to organize and employ Ft's and it all about finding the best one for the overall PR gameplay enviroment (always changing with each new release) and the exact battle situation your squad faces.

Originally Posted by BeerHunter

I may be day dreaming here and have limited PR experience but don't see why a squad of 6 couldn't be broken down into:

1 SL (who could request support form other squads as needed)
1 Medic
2 fire team of 2 consisting of specialty (ie AT, AA,support etc.) with rifleman as support and ammo.

Of course you'd need maximum co operation amongst players so even though it potentially could be done , odds of it being successfully done are pretty slim since it's only a video game and player attendance is for all levels of game play and experience.

Dreams BeerHunter, are a PR players most potent weapon EVER! And just happens to be that your dreams are running damn damn close and jolly creepily to my dreams that I suspect you might be packing some telyphathic powers...........or you read Eggmans post on the PR forums!

Most players have heard of or have experience with the very common 2: 3 man fireteam setup. This is effectively the most basic fireteam setup and therefore probaly the most easy one to organize and use, however its simiplicity comes at a loss of flexability. Fireteams are flexable and the more flexable a fireteam setup is, the more effective it is in defeating the enemy.
What BeerHunter described is, i believe is essensialy a 3: 2 man fireteam setup (the SL and medic should generaly stick close and therefore can be constituted as one Ft.).
This is more complex and i totaly agree with you on the fact that it require a high level of co-operation from all members of the squad. However your comment on pretty slim aint entiely true becuase for the last week i have successfully operated this Ft. setup on quite a number of occations but i will also admit that on other occations i had alot of difficulty. Then again this is only the first week of attempting such.
The complexity does offer significantly greater flexablity becuase instead of only being able to emplay all the squad members or just half, you can employ 1/3 or 2/3 or all of them. THis is very helpfull becuase there are many situations that need alittle more firepower than half the squad, with 2: 2 man fireteams forfilling this OR need just alittle less firepower than half a squad, with 1: 2 man fireteam forfilling this.
Particuarly usefull in defending when you can cover 3 sides well or in suppressing when you can have 4 suppress and 2 flank.

Originally Posted by Gonzo2-22

Thats exactly what i mean TOP,squads would be able to flank a lot more effectively,react to contact with more suppression and movement and just be plain flexible.A lot of this hope is just from being in the military and seeing how effective having a full 8 man squad(minus Sl)can be for maneuvers.But if its hard coded then its just gonna have to be improvised.

YOU Americans and your damn silly 9 man "squads", when will an entire nation see the light of an 8 man SECTION!

jkes

Gonzo, if you are really interested in having a go with larger squads and fireteams you are always welcome touch via on the TG TeamSpeak, particuarly before password nights on Sundays.

Also check this out, it an extremely old post and things have developed a fair bit but the general core idea for one Ft. setup is explained:

http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...riority-2.html

**Gonzo2-22** · 06-30-2007 11:55 AM

8 man sections?tell me more about this.I always thought you guys were the same at the squad level.

**Top Cat AJA** · 06-30-2007 12:11 PM

"Tell me more" those are the words, sort of, i asked R-DEV Gaz, as man of the British Armed Forces to be correct and these are the words he told me.......well sort of, the overal jist! lol.

The British operate groups of 8 men, called SECTIONS. These are split into 2: 4 man Fireteams, known as Charlie (sections commanders Ft.) and Delta (commanded by a 2i/c).
Each fireteam is equipted with a Minimi, a LSW (in-game this is the British marksman kit and it performs the same role in RL), 2 - SA80's and one of which has an UGL.

So really, they are very similar to how the US squad are organized and I could tell you about some of the most basic tacitcs they employ but i am sure from your military experience, the tactics a Section employs are very similar to that of US squads.

P>S loving both Sabre Tooth Tigers orginal and classey pics and Fuzzs expantion on them! On a personal note, if i find my self in the Ducks situation i turned round threaten to peck all my ducklings to death behind me with a frag.........but sometimes, raely,i do, an accident.... well sort of !

**TheSkudDestroyer** · 06-30-2007 12:31 PM

Americas Army utilized Fireteams. Each side had a squad leader, and usually 4 fireteams...A combination of 4 man and 2 man fireteams. 2 man fireteams were used only for Sniper and his spotter. Although, its sad that only in clan enviroments that any of this was effectivly used, sniping/spotting was deadly. When my mother's boyfriend and I would play when as team bravo or delta (usually the sniper squads), I'd rack up the kills, while he'd still get points for my success.

Americas Army is not worth it anymore, for any of us, but for its time...from launch on july 4th 2002- November 2006 when I stopped playing, it was indeed the best out there. The only reason why I dont go back to AA is the lack of intuitive development. The community is also ridden with immaturity, and stat padding. I admit to stat playing. I wanted better stats for my tracker. I believe thats most of the reason I stopped playing. Not to mention, that PR is 100% whooping AA's ass as far as innovation goes. Sure, it had the premise of vehicles, but when AA introduced Humvee's in September 2006, they were buggy and just giant snipers on wheels.

It's a shame. But to sum it up, AA, if it kept on being developed in the right direction, could have given you this experience. If TG ever had an AA server, I sure wished I had been there

**xcannon69** · 06-30-2007 01:03 PM

I frequently dream of using fireteams in PR gameplay but the sad truth is that most people don't share this idea. Most pubbies that normally join my TG squads don't have the discipline or the will to follow orders that require a lot of thinking.

The only way I see this to ever work is if we some how organize tactically minded people into a squad and rehearse the fireteam strategies ahead of time. Then apply them in-game.

A great link someone posted in a previous thread (Thanks) has a lot of nice fireteam strategies. The developers of the game call full spectrum warrior have created a handbook with fireteam strategies that could easily be applied to PR.
Found Here: http://www.fullspectrumwarrior.com/g...s_playbook.php

*Dream*

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