Re: 203s CAN be effective

**Terminal Boy** · 04-20-2007, 09:07 AM

A valid and realistic tactic providing you don't have a Rifleman resupplying the Grenadiers ad infinitum.

How many 40mm rounds would a real US Infantryman/Marine issued with an M4/M203 or M16A2/M203 actually carry?

Maybe 8-10 maximum which would be a combination of HE, Illum, Smoke and possibly buckshot/less lethal rounds depending on the mission profile?

I'm happy to be corrected on this by real-deal guys, I was under the impression that the only spare ammo a Rifleman would carry is a 200 round assault pack for the fire team's M249 SAW.

2-3 Grenadiers putting 2-3 HE rounds each on a flag prior to another squad assaulting = fine

2-3 Grenadiers putting 2-3 HE rounds each on a flag to deny it to the enemy = fine

2-3 Grenadiers putting 2-3 HE rounds each on any piece of real estate to interdict enemy movement = fine

2-3 Grenadiers HE spamming anything ad infitum while Riflemen keep them stocked up with HE = Not fine.

**Crombo** · 04-20-2007, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by Bc2ID

Speaking from real life expereince, this tactic is used in the REAL world. I have been involved in many squads (real life) where the majority of us carried the 203. This is an effective weapon and is used throughout the urban combat arena. Your opinion of a "cheap" tactic is just that your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it. Just keep in mind that some players begin to look for different ways to combat the enemy. I encourage people to explore different strategies. This 203 squad can be used by the CO to destroy targets and groups of enemy positions. It can also be an effective defensive weapon not to mention that its smoke capability is second to none.

Just my thoughts...keep thinking outside the box.

B

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!

Just for some quick background information here is what you have in real life.

You are assigned to a Company and a Platoon. A company is around 100 or 150 men and a Platoon is usually around 50 men. In that Platoon you have Squads which are around 16 to 20 men. In each individual Sqd you have your Fireteams. Now those Fire Teams are what you are use to in BF. The difference is, a Company Co can mix and match the men and weapons of the company to accomplish missions.

In Afghanistan, I was in a Fire Team that alone, had 2 saw gunners (the sqd had a total of 5) for a sweep of a town that was rumored to have insurgents. Why? Because the Hummers we drove did not have a 30 cal gun on top so they wanted the equivalent suppressing fire power.

The point is, in real life if they want a Team of all 203s they would do it.

Second point. Getting a sqd of 203s THAT LISTEN AND FOLLOW ORDERS is not easy, so I do not see a nade fest coming any time soon. Also we were not running around wildly, we were under a CO whos exact words were, "Oh Sqd 1, I read about the arty sqd in the TG forums, lets see what you can do."
And he did. He directed our movement as he needed and we did what he asked.

**Bc2ID** · 04-20-2007, 10:11 AM

If anyone is spamming 203 rounds on a target then this is not the TG way. I know Crombo and his style, he would not do such a thing. Guys, this game is all about tactics and less about kills. If a Tg'er is leading a squad, then you can bet your buttons that his play style will reflect.

B

**Jeepo** · 04-20-2007, 11:47 AM

I sadly was not there for this round, had to bug out in the previous, but i have used this tactic with crombo before. Is great, realistic, and is not a squad with all 203's. need a medic, and a rifleman. Also used it once where i was a sniper, spotting target on the flag.this leave 3-4 203's, which is still effective!also, like crombo said, it is difficult to get people who will follow orders, and the 203, although easy to use when elevated, takes skill to use effectively on flat ground!

**stickyjeans69** · 04-20-2007, 11:48 AM

an Opinion is an Opinion, as someone on this forum said before BF is about fun, not war. people will lead by exampe (monkey see Monkey do). IF you make a Mortar squad with 203's quite naturally someone will see this squad and think. hmm maybe i should make my own? he will. people will join it and it WILL turn into a nade spam. i can gauruntee this to you. infact i'd be willing to bet money on it. if it is only used as said. 2-3 people without reloads (rifleman) and it is only used to clear the flag then to advance. i dont care. but this will turn into a nadespam if it continues and i will regret what the TG PR server becomes from it. as i've said in other posts. thank god for the M203 limiting.

**Crombo** · 04-20-2007, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by stickyjeans69

an Opinion is an Opinion, as someone on this forum said before BF is about fun, not war. people will lead by exampe (monkey see Monkey do). IF you make a Mortar squad with 203's quite naturally someone will see this squad and think. hmm maybe i should make my own? he will. people will join it and it WILL turn into a nade spam. i can gauruntee this to you. infact i'd be willing to bet money on it. if it is only used as said. 2-3 people without reloads (rifleman) and it is only used to clear the flag then to advance. i dont care. but this will turn into a nadespam if it continues and i will regret what the TG PR server becomes from it. as i've said in other posts. thank god for the M203 limiting.

Yes an opinion is an opinion and you are entitled to it. I am in no way attempting to berate you or argue. I am just saying that using 203s as improvised arty is, well, reality.

Secondly, yes BF is for fun however I believe Project Reality (which you play) is an attempt to make it, again, more real. And in using your arguement, they should then limit the medic kit and the engineer due to those being MOS specific. The 203 is not! The 203 is a weapon that the majority of enlisted men are trained on (trained on is the key word, not qualified with.)

Thirdly, I digress, I do not see it becoming a nade spam. Especially in TG they push for maturity and following orders from SLs and COs. This means that if there are 2 or 3 sqds using 203s then its a SL or COs job to regulate that.

Lastly, you are missing the point of TG entirely, "Clear a flag then advance." TG is about Tactics and TEAMWORK. One sqd is not suppose to do all. That is team work, one sqd clears while another advances. One sqd advances while another holds the flank. Maybe its just me, maybe Im the odd ball and this could be why I dont CO much. People, maybe you, seem to have a hard time understanding Sqd tactics. Yes it sucks to play a game and the whole time you have to sit there defending a flag that is never attacked, BUT that is reality and a part of tactics.

I know Im going on a rant here and honestly I dont mean to but in a game called Project REALITY and with a group of good guys called TACTICAL GAMERS sometimes you have to realize that this group is about team work and not score or individual acheviements. I guess "For the greater good" is the best way I can describe it.

**Grunt 70** · 04-20-2007, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by 7ShadesOSin

It may -encourage- the type of behaviour we don't want on the TG server, and that would be the main issue. Grenade spamming, and all that other good stuff, is not the behaviour we want to promote, and that is the main problem I see here.

I think 7 is on the mark here. Glad it worked but I won't employ it as a SL.

**Jeepo** · 04-20-2007, 01:17 PM

I can understand what you mean guys, not wanting it to turn into a nade fest! However, i do believe that this was a well implemented squad tactic, and i would like to see other peoples ideas on possible real life tactics being used in PR, could be very interesting?.....

**stickyjeans69** · 04-20-2007, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Crombo

Yes an opinion is an opinion and you are entitled to it. I am in no way attempting to berate you or argue. I am just saying that using 203s as improvised arty is, well, reality.

Secondly, yes BF is for fun however I believe Project Reality (which you play) is an attempt to make it, again, more real. And in using your arguement, they should then limit the medic kit and the engineer due to those being MOS specific. The 203 is not! The 203 is a weapon that the majority of enlisted men are trained on (trained on is the key word, not qualified with.)

Thirdly, I digress, I do not see it becoming a nade spam. Especially in TG they push for maturity and following orders from SLs and COs. This means that if there are 2 or 3 sqds using 203s then its a SL or COs job to regulate that.

Lastly, you are missing the point of TG entirely, "Clear a flag then advance." TG is about Tactics and TEAMWORK. One sqd is not suppose to do all. That is team work, one sqd clears while another advances. One sqd advances while another holds the flank. Maybe its just me, maybe Im the odd ball and this could be why I dont CO much. People, maybe you, seem to have a hard time understanding Sqd tactics. Yes it sucks to play a game and the whole time you have to sit there defending a flag that is never attacked, BUT that is reality and a part of tactics.

I know Im going on a rant here and honestly I dont mean to but in a game called Project REALITY and with a group of good guys called TACTICAL GAMERS sometimes you have to realize that this group is about team work and not score or individual acheviements. I guess "For the greater good" is the best way I can describe it.

"People, maybe you, seem to have a hard time understanding Sqd tactics. Yes it sucks to play a game and the whole time you have to sit there defending a flag that is never attacked, BUT that is reality and a part of tactics."

first off, Crombo, i take offense to this as it is a direct attack to me and my game play style. Second, maybe if you took the time to play in the squad labled TEAM HAVOK commonly found on the TG server you might have the slightest idea of how my teamwork and tactics work. I find you fairly immature in your assumption. third, teamwork comes in many forms, smart one. you will not always have a commander and sometimes must work on YOUR OWN 6 people, not twelve. in this case you would Clear the flag, then advance forward and hold the flag. you mention the name reality, that it is, named project reality. Project reality means they want to make it as realistic as possible. however a good time is the main concept of BF2, i find vanilla not as a good time, i hope you don't either. PRM is a very good GAME though and a game it will continue to be. but when you take a mortar squad with accurate firing 203's and not INNACURATE mortars you can aim take a lead from a running target and hit him fairly accurately with a 203. with a mortar(aimed up) yes UP you can do this with a real 203 not with BF2's 203, you rain un aimed but rather loosely placed shots down on a target you HOPE to hit as you can only adjust aim by hearing the input from other squads etc. south north east west.

**Bc2ID** · 04-20-2007, 01:37 PM

OK this will be my last comment then I will move on...

If anyone suspected nade spamming and you did not contact an ADMIN, then shame on you and move on. No second guessing. If you were not in that squad or do not know of someone in that squad then move on. You cannot know a squads intent unless you were present. This is a viable (non-spamming) tactic and will be continued to be used. If you do not like it then find a tactical way of taking out the squad. I cannot tell you how many times I was pinned under fire cursing and yelling at the enem9. Did I take my weapon and go home? NO, I found a way to neutralize the threat. This is also a real life scenario. I have been in real squads with multiple 203 gunners...

This thread started out constructively and is now turning into akfinger pointing rant. Everyone take a step back and look at the issue from both sides. If anyone (especially someone with a TG tag) is caught spamming anything, then YOU have the responsibility to report that to the ADMIN. Do not rely on someone else to do it for you. Guys we all know better and know the rules. Set the example, try different tactics, and most of all HAVE FUN!!!

B

**Root** · 04-20-2007, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by 7ShadesOSin

As is (technically), jumping as you run to avoid fire - but that's not allowed in-game.

No, it's really not a real life tactic.

Originally Posted by Terminal Boy

A valid and realistic tactic providing you don't have a Rifleman resupplying the Grenadiers ad infinitum.

Crombo has never indicated that such a 203 squad would be comprised of 6 members all using the weapon.

Originally Posted by stickyjeans69

an Opinion is an Opinion, as someone on this forum said before BF is about fun, not war.

Close but not quite. It's about :

Originally Posted by TG Primer

3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine, regardless of the level of advantage, if any, it gives over the opposing team.

Any other way of gaming isn't really fun at all. That's why TG is such a success - we provide a haven for people who want to game that way.

**Crombo** · 04-20-2007, 02:32 PM

first off, Crombo, i take offense to this as it is a direct attack to me and my game play style. Second, maybe if you took the time to play in the squad labled TEAM HAVOK commonly found on the TG server you might have the slightest idea of how my teamwork and tactics work. I find you fairly immature in your assumption. third, teamwork comes in many forms, smart one.

but when you take a mortar squad with accurate firing 203's and not INNACURATE mortars you can aim take a lead from a running target and hit him fairly accurately with a 203. with a mortar(aimed up) yes UP you can do this with a real 203 not with BF2's 203, you rain un aimed but rather loosely placed shots down on a target you HOPE to hit as you can only adjust aim by hearing the input from other squads etc. south north east west.

I as well am going to take a step back from this thread after this post. I meant no insults and did not intend for you to take offense. However, let me say this. If you, even for a second, ASSUME that mortars are INACCURATE you are misunderstood. Not immature, not a smart guy, just misunderstood. I have seen mortars hit their target in the first barrage, I call that accurate. Secondly, they are not fired up, they are set at an angle. Thirdly, there is no HOPE when dealing with projectiles and explosives. There is knowledge, planning and experience. HOPING you shoot well, kills the guy you were playing poker with the night before.

**ChernobylKinsman** · 04-20-2007, 02:43 PM

Slightly off topic.. but as it was mentioned about contacting an admin if you suspect nade spamming (or whatever) - how on earth can you prove it? With the kill messages gone and the inability to see enemy names (great features of the mod) you can't actually screenshot anything happening and you don't even know who is doing it.. or if it's the same person each time. This really only annoys me when there is blatant and easy to screenshot bunnyhopping going on but I can't get the name of the person to report it.

**dys** · 04-20-2007, 02:44 PM

they're pretty insane on helmand with the destructable buildings. with 5 guys laying down on a neutral, it'd just be a slaughter, with no real shelter available. may as well put the flags on a tree in a field. my opinion- valid, but imbalanced (at the moment) tactic. but then, why even give the enemy any advantage, so long as you remain within the rules. if one would argue that it's in the interest of being fair, then i'd point out that assembled, formal troop movements died in ww1 for a good reason. because playing fair is ignorant. take every advantage you can, but stay inside geneva

we need a new name for this. the MLNTS. or multiple launch noobtoob system

**Switch** · 04-21-2007, 02:38 AM

PR just isn't getting real enough, lets all enlist and ask to be kept together through basic... who's in?

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