Re: Clarification: Artying UCB Allowed?

**Iamthefallen** · 12-16-2005, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by black death5

That's up to the admins to decide if we need an ammendment to the rules or not. Now we let them debate.

Obviously. But, I don't think it hurts to let the admins know how the community as a whole feels about it. For all I know, there might be a ton of people who would like to be able to arty the UCB.

**Acid** · 12-16-2005, 10:13 AM

I was just trying to prevent a similar thread to the one on knifing. That one just went on and on even when people had expressed their opinions. Just express your thoughts and problems and then let it be taken care of.

**P8riot** · 12-16-2005, 10:22 AM

UCB arty seems acceptable to me.. the delay between firings and the lack of accuracy/timing plays a real role in that. There is plenty of time for a squad to escape a UCB arty kill-zone if that is what is happening. I know it is real inconveinient when your team is in a hole and trying to get out - a new tactic for that team is probably needed pretty quick to get out of that position.

Your best bet is a small SF squad behind the lines wrecking the CO's resources before even getting backed up into that position.

Just a thought..

Now Arty on SF.. thats a different story.

**JimmyTwoHand** · 12-16-2005, 10:27 AM

Ok, to add my $0.02. I dont like the idea of artying a UCB but i have never seen this done on the TG servers so far. I do not think a rigid set of rules for everything is necessarily a good thing (not to say a structured framework isnt vital). If there is no set rule for this then it seems the honour system of leaving it to the individual conscience of the CO in question has been working quite well. As it is normally the more Veteran TGers who are in the CO chair i cannot see this becoming a major issue but if this is officially an acceptable practice then some guidelines with examples of potential uses of Arty on a UCB should be made available for the benefit of new CO's. Thats my view and i now respectfully bow out of this thread.

**Tempus** · 12-16-2005, 10:42 AM

1. Arty on a UCB is usually a waste.
2. UCBs are not off-limit zones. The rules we have in place are to prevent wars from being fought in there.
3. This has never been a problem before. Why are you all getting so hysterical about it now?

**WhiskeySix** · 12-16-2005, 10:57 AM

To me, Artying the UCB seems completely incongruent w/ there rest of the UCB rules (in spirit and in substance).

do not steal or destroy vehicles in UCB (this inhibits teamwork)
do not attack people that have just spawned in UCB (the post-spawn lack of SA doesn't exist in real life, and it's awful to be spawn-camped when you have no other alternative spawn location)

So - the only "valid" reason to arty a UCB is to kill infantry? (that is, infantry that have not just spawned?)

I'm w/ Fallen on this one... It seems a lot easier just to outlaw it than to have the loop hole - "sorry to blowup your three helo's, and jet - i didn't mean to - I was aiming for some agressive looking troops beside them".

I mean... You've all had the experience of hopping on USMC mid-round and finding that you only have the carrier left. As it is today, that situation can be increadibly frustrating since it's so difficult to establish a beachhead. If you added MEC artillery to that situation?? psh, forget it.

Honestly, I can think of nothing LESS |TG| than to have artillery shredding the flight-deck every 20 seconds or whatever it is... not a lot of "teamwork" involved in this sequence:

- run towards transportation (aircraft on flight-deck)
- get launched 600ft in air by exploding artillery
- wait 15 seconds to respawn
- wait another 15 seconds for an aircraft to respawn
- get killed as your huey engines spool-up.

**BHack** · 12-16-2005, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Tempus

1. Arty on a UCB is usually a waste.
2. UCBs are not off-limit zones. The rules we have in place are to prevent wars from being fought in there.
3. This has never been a problem before. Why are you all getting so hysterical about it now?

Well maybe it wasn't a problem before because everyone thought it was against the rules? Or maybe I'm alone here.

It just seems to follow through that if you can't (initiate) an attack as a regular player at a UCB, why should a commander be able to do that.

Actually, I suppose a better argument is the one preston brought up. You can't take a bomber and bomb the UCB. Yet, in that case the bomber pilot has no idea someone has spawned (isn't attempting to take advantage of their 'disorientation'), has to fly back to homebase to do it again (can't do it without repreive), etc.

I'm not getting hysterical, but making the argument that the hard rules are supposed to be a 'framework' allowing for 'common sense' to dictate the specifics. Well, this seems to go against a common sense extrapolation of a hard rule.

Then again, often times my common sense ideas aren't all that common, maybe i'm not thinking about this right.

**|TG| B** · 12-16-2005, 11:16 AM

wooow so much negative energy in here... a lot of them...

Arty on UCB is allowed but rarely used... Whoever is artying UCB constantly is a bad commander. Whichever team that got into that situation is a bad team as wel...

**Syn** · 12-16-2005, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Bhack

Actually, I suppose a better argument is the one preston brought up. You can't take a bomber and bomb the UCB. Yet, in that case the bomber pilot has no idea someone has spawned (isn't attempting to take advantage of their 'disorientation'), has to fly back to homebase to do it again (can't do it without repreive), etc.

Yeah, arty is exactly the same thing, only a commander has the advantage of having all those red dots on his screen telling him where people are. To me arty = bombs, same thing as a bomber. If on'e not allowed, the other shouldnt be, and vice versa.

I've played 2 games that, to my recollection, the enemy commander bombed our UCB almsot 100% of the time throughout the game. No one appreciated it, once was on Oman when the UCB was the only flag left, arty would nail squads grouping to make a push, and the few that did survive got hammered by aircraft before getting anywhere near the beach. Where's the fun in that?

**Lucky Shot** · 12-16-2005, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Syn

To me arty = bombs, same thing as a bomber. If on'e not allowed, the other shouldnt be, and vice versa.

Having been around for a bit at TG, I asked several months ago about the Artying the UCB and it is allowed. It is just in poor taste. I also asked about a specific situation in regards to bombing the UCB and the response I received back is that it is also allowed under certain circumstances including your occupation of a vehicle, Counts as engaging a Bomber, "Sort of" as you appear on their bomber screen. Beyond that, you can bomb (Arty, Bomber, TV Guided Missle) the Assets all you want. As players adhering to the honor system, we don't. But I imagine that Wake Island with this revelation is now much tougher.

Lucky Shot

**Acid** · 12-16-2005, 11:42 AM

If UCB vheicle destroying isn't allowed, then why is it done so often? Arty destroys them, jets bomb them and gun them.

**WhiskeySix** · 12-16-2005, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by asch

The UCB is not meant to be a safe haven for players to spawn.

Respectfully, yes it is...

from:RULES: BF2 Rules & Guidelines

2) Players are not allowed into the enemy UCB for any reason other than for the sole purpose of destroying the enemy's assets (artillery/uav/radar). Restricted acts include:

1. Entering the UCB with the intent on killing a disoriented spawning player.
2. Entering the UCB with the intent of stealing any vehicle.
3. Flying over the UCB for air raids / bombing runs.
4. Entering the UCB with the intent to lay mines / c4.

These acts are restricted not to deny valid real-life tactics, but to ensure the quality of game play. Rule #2 must be a simple and clear rule that is easily adminstered and does not vary on a map-by-map basis.

....

UCB Assaults
Players acting within their commander's authorization MAY attack structures (UAV Trailer, Radar Dish & Artillery) within the enemy UCB, vehicles within the UCB are OFF LIMITS.

...

It is the responsibility of the attacker to not spawn camp while in the opposition UCB, for any reason or amount of time. The attacker may and should defend himself and his fellow soldiers from attack during his objective in the UCB, but at no point may he spawn camp, even if the only alternative is death and/or failing his UCB objective.

heheh - not trying to be an ass or kickover a beehive here - I just don't see how dropping artillery is at all compliant with the Official rules... Especially with the influx of new players, simplicity is best for all involved

btw - much love to the admins for taking time out of your lives to deal with these "small-beans" issues

**Lucky Shot** · 12-16-2005, 12:05 PM

You don't enter the UCB in order to drop arty for one. But there is no restrictions on Artillery use, none.

Lucky Shot

**kornkobcom** · 12-16-2005, 12:12 PM

And in none of the quote you pulled from the rules is there any statement that indicates that the UCB is a safe haven.

**WhiskeySix** · 12-16-2005, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Lucky Shot

You don't enter the UCB in order to drop arty for one. But there is no restrictions on Artillery use, none.

Lucky Shot

yeah... well, only that you aren't allowed to kill spawning players or destroy unoccupied vehicles with it. (right?

)

Thread Tools

Display