Re: Clarification: Artying UCB Allowed?

**Wulfyn** · 12-16-2005, 12:18 PM

If the UCB were a safe haven, then anyone in it would be safe no matter what, correct? Let's take this example:

Oman, attack helos. The Cobra has managed to get position on the Mil, shot the TV missile and missed. The pilot strafes with rockets scoring some good hits. The Mil is now smoking. The two helos are close - too close for realistic TV missil shots, and the MEC pilots know that to extract a distance is to invite immediate death (even the chaingun should take it out fairly soon now). The MEC pilots then decide to go back to their base for repairs. The cobra pilots notice this nad hover just outside the UCB. The Mil pilot enters the UCB, and now hovers just above the landing pad. The cobra gunner unleashes a TV missile, with a direct hit, smoking the Mil.

This is a perfectly allowed attack. The Mil does not become off limits by re-entering the UCB. Nor would it be off limits if it took off 20 feet, and then shot TV missiles BVR at the enemy. It is active and engaging - being in the UCB will not save it now.

Not saying that this example has anything to do with artillery strikes, it is purely meant to give an example of a situation where a UCB is not a safe haven.

**Acid** · 12-16-2005, 12:20 PM

Guys, this is quickly going downhill....keep it real and state your opinion, don't keep going back and forth trying to back it up.

The rules state simple things that you are allowed and not allowed to do. We are now arguing over if artillery breaks those rules. Artillery isn't your normal weapon, it is supposed to be a long range destructive force, meant to take out enemies in a specific area.

**kornkobcom** · 12-16-2005, 12:21 PM

I believe that the intent of this is to prevent targeting spawning players and unoccupied vehicles. However, collatoral damage is another thing all together.

If an SF team in the UCB is being agressed by a squad of defenders and in the course of defending themselves they kill a spawning player or destroy an unoccupied vehicle with splash damage or stray rounds, one could not say they were 'spawn camping'.

**Acid** · 12-16-2005, 12:22 PM

Do we also agree that a vheicle is not off limits if it has engaged or been engaged outside the UCB? I believe so, and that also goes for infantry. There isn't a wall or shield around the UCB, it's like a 1 way door to the outside. Once you step through it, you are in the real battlefield and the UCB is no longer a safe haven.

**Trooper** · 12-16-2005, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by black death5

Do we also agree that a vheicle is not off limits if it has engaged or been engaged outside the UCB? I believe so, and that also goes for infantry. There isn't a wall or shield around the UCB, it's like a 1 way door to the outside. Once you step through it, you are in the real battlefield and the UCB is no longer a safe haven.

well put....like someone else posted im not really sure why this is a big deal now....since there is no rule for/against it then its just up the COs disgretion to use when and where he/she wants

and if you really have a problem with that thougth and this topic is causeing you to rethink your membership, then thats your deal and not worth the flame that this post has cuased...and dont argue with the admins and think you know more then them...

**Lucky Shot** · 12-16-2005, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by WhiskeySix

yeah... well, only that you aren't allowed to kill spawning players or destroy unoccupied vehicles with it. (right?

)

The understanding I have is that if you are in a vehicle, driving around the UCB, you are fair game to a bomber as it can be considered "Engaging" the enemy if he can pick you up on his HUD. Vehicles that are repairing/defending assets are subject to destruction.

Artillery can be used in any situation at any time on any place including enemy airfields if necessary. That includes unmanned vehicles.

The UCB is not a safe haven, although for infantry purposes, when you enter, only engage with those who engage you first on your way to taking out the assets.

Lucky Shot

**Acid** · 12-16-2005, 12:36 PM

This has now caused a big fuss here, with 10 SM's right now viewing it and more posts to come. We need some action or a restraint from further comments. It is good to express your opinions to the Admins, but not when it turns into a

Originally Posted by Bommando

pissing match

.

**Iamthefallen** · 12-16-2005, 12:38 PM

IMHO the rule is very simple, you should get a fair chance of getting out of the UCB with your vehicle of choice, assuming you don't attack anyone from within UCB. That doesn't make it a "safe haven", no one is asking it to be.

I just really don't understand how artillery in a UCB can be allowed as it seems to completely go against the intent of the UCB rules. The argument that you cannot know if a player just spawned or not seems very weak to me, in fact, it's an excuse.
It's one step removed from flying the bomber towards the UCB, dropping bombs/LGMs and pulling up hard to avoid flying over the UCB. Perfectly legal according to the letter of the law right?

Silly arguments.

The discussion should be very simple, UCB arty is currently allowed, is there a desire to request that the admins amend the rules?

**WhiskeySix** · 12-16-2005, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by black death5

Guys, this is quickly going downhill....

Originally Posted by Trooper[SNPR

] ...not worth the flame that this post has cuased

jeez guys, what's the problem?

lol! sorry, I was under the impression we were just having a friendly discussion?

Edit: blackdeath, it's not a pissing match (at least not from my end)... I'm just having trouble rectifying the rules, that's all... nothing more

**Nikolas** · 12-16-2005, 12:44 PM

Wow.

**Wulfyn** · 12-16-2005, 12:53 PM

Ok, to try and regain some focus here:

There is no point having a conversation about whether the arty on a UCB breaks existing rules. It does not. If you try and justify that it does break the rules then you are wasting your time. In the end if the Game Officer says that it's ok, then it's ok.

If you don't like a rule, or if you would like to see a rule better worded then that is another thing entirely. The best thing to do in this situation is to either present your ideas on the forums for consideration / review by other members before making it a suggestion, or to suggest it to an admin.

We do talk about the rules of the server a lot, and we are not blind to them. If you have good valid suggestions then we are all willing to hear. After all, how do you know that the admins aren't talking about this sort of thing at the moment? If you want to get involved then take it up with us directly please!

-----

Finally if you would like clarifiaction on the rules please also PM an admin. If you feel that a clarification warrants broadcasting then we are happy to do so. If you look at a lot of the posts the admins start here they are clarifications on rules.

**Tempus** · 12-16-2005, 12:53 PM

I have locked this thread. The drama in the thread is unnecessary considering the very few times any of us have ever seen an arty strike on a UCB. We are only arguing about possibilities instead of realities.

The admins deliberated a while with the decision to not limit Arty strikes. If we see a problem with this in the future we may revisit the ruling.

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