Re: Sniper Feedback

**sordavie** · 05-08-2006, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by asch

Duke will have to correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe only the accuracy of the sniper rifle has been modified. So any inaccuracies you are feeling with other weapons also exist in vanilla.

I think the source of his disgust is with the other weapons being so accurate compared to the sniper rifle. As everyone has already figured out, it's better to snipe with the spec ops rifle than the sniper rifles. That's so especially for the opfor side where the sniper rifles also have a longer delay between rechambering.

The thought might be: vanilla is pretty balanced as far as accuracy of weapons. If you're going to lower the sniper rifle accuracy, you had better lower the accuracy of the other weapons as well. If you're not going to do the latter, then don't do the former. At least that's what I get reading between the lines.

Lowering the accuracy and adding the rechambering delay to the opfor sniper rifles has certainly helped keep the numbers of snipers on both sides (a lot more on the opfor side) down. But this comes at the cost of making the kit almost useless (compared to other kits), and people find it frustrating to play. That said, I don't really have any good suggestions on how to fix things.

**Kaine904** · 05-09-2006, 11:45 AM

Thank you! ^^^^ That post outlines many of my feelings and frustrations!
Sord, thanks!
-Kaine

**asch** · 05-09-2006, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by sordavie

I think the source of his disgust is with the other weapons being so accurate compared to the sniper rifle. As everyone has already figured out, it's better to snipe with the spec ops rifle than the sniper rifles. That's so especially for the opfor side where the sniper rifles also have a longer delay between rechambering.

The thought might be: vanilla is pretty balanced as far as accuracy of weapons. If you're going to lower the sniper rifle accuracy, you had better lower the accuracy of the other weapons as well. If you're not going to do the latter, then don't do the former. At least that's what I get reading between the lines.

Lowering the accuracy and adding the rechambering delay to the opfor sniper rifles has certainly helped keep the numbers of snipers on both sides (a lot more on the opfor side) down. But this comes at the cost of making the kit almost useless (compared to other kits), and people find it frustrating to play. That said, I don't really have any good suggestions on how to fix things.

In the current release, the accuracy of the sniper rifle is still higher than most other weapons. However, due to the feedback we have already identified the sniper rifle accuracy as something to be increased in the 1.1 release.

**FBmantis** · 05-10-2006, 01:24 AM

Was the damage adjusted?....you can make the sniper rifles as accurate as it can go but if we can't kill a target in two hits with room to spare than its going to be worthless.

**asch** · 05-10-2006, 02:07 AM

Originally Posted by FBmantis

Was the damage adjusted?....you can make the sniper rifles as accurate as it can go but if we can't kill a target in two hits with room to spare than its going to be worthless.

A headshot will kill in one shot. A body shot will kill in two shots. I think maybe that if the target is wearing body armor it will take three body shots. Limb shots do less damage (i.e. a couple of health bars) than that.

**sordavie** · 05-10-2006, 03:35 AM

Originally Posted by asch

In the current release, the accuracy of the sniper rifle is still higher than most other weapons. However, due to the feedback we have already identified the sniper rifle accuracy as something to be increased in the 1.1 release.

Right, I was indicating the comparative accuracy of sniper rifles versus the regular ones. I didn't mean to imply that they were less accurate.

**FBmantis** · 05-10-2006, 03:49 AM

Originally Posted by asch

A headshot will kill in one shot. A body shot will kill in two shots. I think maybe that if the target is wearing body armor it will take three body shots. Limb shots do less damage (i.e. a couple of health bars) than that.

I'm being picky but I don't feel like I got an answer. Is damage going to be increased in the next release? If its just accuracy being adjusted then nothing will have changed. You are going to see the same complaints. Sniper rifles should not take 3 shots with armor. They should be the one gun that does a ton of damage. I mean with this crazy increased damage on all the rifles(spec ops/assault/medic) those guns can usually do kills in 2-3 shots. Why should a sniper rifle not be better than those? If the tac mod devs are worried about them being too powerful again then increase the time between shots.

**asch** · 05-10-2006, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by FBmantis

I'm being picky but I don't feel like I got an answer. Is damage going to be increased in the next release? If its just accuracy being adjusted then nothing will have changed. You are going to see the same complaints. Sniper rifles should not take 3 shots with armor. They should be the one gun that does a ton of damage. I mean with this crazy increased damage on all the rifles(spec ops/assault/medic) those guns can usually do kills in 2-3 shots. Why should a sniper rifle not be better than those? If the tac mod devs are worried about them being too powerful again then increase the time between shots.

I don't believe the damage / power of the sniper rifle is being adjusted in v1.1. Duke will also have to chime in on exactly how many body shots it takes against someone with body armor, I'm not exactly sure.

Why should the sniper rifle be better (more powerful) than the other rifles?

**Trooper** · 05-10-2006, 09:56 AM

I think that statement is gonna flirt with balance issues. Yes the Sniper rifle should be a 1 shot kill, meaning 99% accuracy and 99% damange. But if thats done the chinese and MEC sides would just all go sniper and have a hay day. It wouldnt be anyfun for those snipers who actually play the kit likes its supposed to. Then you have to look at it, if one side is gonna be done like that you would almost have to speed the chambering of the M24 so it would atleast be close, but then you loose the realism

Never ending cycle. I tried the sniper rifle in last saturdays scrim and almost threw my monitor, was so awful. If each side had a bolt action sniper rifle then maybe it could be set for RL standards but since one side is semi-auto its just gonna have to be nerfed one way or the other, then we get threads complaining about it.

**WhiskeySix** · 05-10-2006, 10:12 AM

agree that in principle the sniper rifles should have one-shot-kill ability.

<imagines 1shot-1kill sniper rifle being used in CQB>

hmmm.. what if the sniper's "max-health" was significantly reduced... effectively making it a kit with a one shot death? That'd require using more stealth and long distance engaging.

No more sniper vs. m4 shootouts.... as a sniper, you'd only want to take the sure shot, not just try to engage from "out of range" of the bad guy... and if you miss, make sure the bullet doesn't hit the wall beside your target - since then they'll know where you are (roughly) and have a good chance of killing you...

**matt_g_geier** · 05-10-2006, 10:23 AM

I agree that the sniper kits should contain less ammo. That will make people use shots more wisely.

I disagree to a point about 1 shot kills.

I think it should be so, if it's a head shot, or neck up.

Beyond that, it should at least be two no more then three.

[I]?? Is there a way to designate shots to the legs, say, as less damage then shots to the upper body (not including the head)??[I]

Also, is there a way to add a "zoom" ability? say 2x or 3x zoom? - That would definately add a new element. Although in the current style of play it's not needed at all.

**asch** · 05-10-2006, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by matt_g_geier

Is there a way to designate shots to the legs, say, as less damage then shots to the upper body (not including the head)??

I believe the hit boxes are head, body, limbs and (maybe) back. A hit to the limbs will do less damage than a hit to the body, which is less damage than a hit to the head.

Also, is there a way to add a "zoom" ability? say 2x or 3x zoom? - That would definately add a new element. Although in the current style of play it's not needed at all.

It's possible. Would that provide for sniping across to great a distance though?

**Trooper** · 05-10-2006, 10:55 PM

Well yes it would provide that but this game moves way to fast to be makeing cross map sniper kills. And doing that would really do nothing to help out the balance of the rifles and the quality of play wouldnt be increased.

**Dick Blonov** · 05-10-2006, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by WhiskeySix

agree that in principle the sniper rifles should have one-shot-kill ability.

<imagines 1shot-1kill sniper rifle being used in CQB>

hmmm.. what if the sniper's "max-health" was significantly reduced... effectively making it a kit with a one shot death? That'd require using more stealth and long distance engaging.

No more sniper vs. m4 shootouts.... as a sniper, you'd only want to take the sure shot, not just try to engage from "out of range" of the bad guy... and if you miss, make sure the bullet doesn't hit the wall beside your target - since then they'll know where you are (roughly) and have a good chance of killing you...

I think this is a great idea. Weapon damage and accuracy should be made as close as possible to RL. Kits could be «tweaked»: for snipers, one shot death, limited sprinting ability, limited ammo, etc. This is where balance should be achieved.

If you look at ballistics, a 7.62 nato round has about double the energy of a 5.56 nato round at 100m (accuracy is another issue that is a bit more complex but having an M4 being better than an M24 is perplexing to say the least). I think this is worth exploring.

DB

**Jusb** · 05-11-2006, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Dick Blonov

I think this is a great idea. Weapon damage and accuracy should be made as close as possible to RL. Kits could be «tweaked»: for snipers, one shot death, limited sprinting ability, limited ammo, etc. This is where balance should be achieved.

If you look at ballistics, a 7.62 nato round has about double the energy of a 5.56 nato round at 100m (accuracy is another issue that is a bit more complex but having an M4 being better than an M24 is perplexing to say the least). I think this is worth exploring.

DB

dont knock a snipers sprint down. this is the class that moves on foot more than any other. It is already slow boring going with the speed decrease tweaks getting from A to B