Sniper Feedback

**Jusb** · 04-16-2006, 09:48 PM

Hey guys,

Only got to play 2 rounds tonight w/ Santa's squad (Ihate1st-ironically) but there's still something not right with the sniper rifle since you guys changed the settings from the 1.2 patch and put out Tac-Mod Version 1.0. I dont really know how to explain it but think of it as when you used to go to the carnival and you bought tix to the dunk tank. Except everytime you throw your softball and it hits the target dead-on, the arm never swings back and the guy in the tank never gets dunked. You hit the target over and over and over but it never moves. That's how i feel about the accuracy of shots w/ the new adjustments. I hit shot over and over from close, from medium, from far all in the head and the guy never dies.

I know i'm in the minority and everyone bitches about sniper this and sniper that - but a good sniper should not be at such a disadvantage - especially from medium to long range. When i'm losing one-on-ones to an AK, support gun or the spec-ops guns when at range (and even when i have the drop on my opponent) something is not right.

I'm all for damage modifiers and multiple body shots for a kill but like i said something is wrong and it is very frustrating watching what should be kills instead have me firing an entire clip and dying even though I know they should be kill shots.

I like the Tac-Mod but i dont like playing frustrated like my weapon of choice has been "tweaked" out of my hands.

hopefully you guys can figure out what is going on.

Thanks.

**perry** · 04-17-2006, 12:34 AM

Yea, I noticed the same thing tonight. Emptied a whole M24 clip in to a dude on Bocage, only to be headshotted by a Chinese specops gun from the same distance. Thought it was just me.

**Santa** · 04-17-2006, 12:52 AM

I agree, the accuracy is piss poor for all the sniper rifles. Because of it the spec ops guns are better for the sniper role.

**Coridon** · 04-17-2006, 01:19 AM

They were nerfed because there for a while everyone was playing sniper on urban maps. It'll be tricky getting it to be accurate, but not so accurate that it forces 50% of players to chose that kit.

People spend a lot more time motionless behind cover/concealment in TacMod and that makes for easy headshots. Still probably some tweaking to be done, but probably not a whole heck of a lot for the reason stated above...

**SgtDuke** · 04-17-2006, 01:21 AM

We're going to increase sniper rifle accuracy a notch in the next release. We'll keep doing this until we find the setting where snipers are happy with their performance and people aren't reporting that they didn't have any fun because they were constantly being sniped.

**Trooper** · 04-17-2006, 01:23 AM

Is there a way to limit the number of snipers per side, say one per squad per each side? We have done that in COD2 and it really cuts down on the people whining because of snipers. Also we changed the amount of time it takes to reload, slowd that down and then the sniper has to wait. Just ask anyone who has been sniped by me

**DrunkenSoul** · 04-17-2006, 01:23 AM

Perhaps reduce the amount of ammo clips as well so they have to wait for the perfect shot

**Jusb** · 04-17-2006, 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by Coridon

They were nerfed because there for a while everyone was playing sniper on urban maps. It'll be tricky getting it to be accurate, but not so accurate that it forces 50% of players to chose that kit.

I agree with that and i think thats why they made it more difficult but its definitely overkill and not fair to the better snipers. I shouldnt have to shoot you in the head 3 times and watch you kill me with one shot because there were "too many snipers". Especially when you can do the same kind of killing a sniper used to be able to do with the ramped up support gun and spec ops weapon at range. People who were playing sniper before because it's too easy are now playing sniper with the spec ops kit.

People spend a lot more time motionless behind cover/concealment in TacMod and that makes for easy headshots. Still probably some tweaking to be done, but probably not a whole heck of a lot for the reason stated above...

I thought thats why they changed the body damage so that it takes off less for a body shot? A headshot should be deadly for any weapon especially a sniper rifle. If you have your head sticking out and dont move between/behind cover between shots then you deserve to die.

I just dont think its fair to penalize good snipers at range for lazy infantry who arent aware of their surroundings and dont take the proper initiative to make sure they arent sitting exposed. Even a good sniper misses shots that tells a concealed player he's a target, yet they still dont move or do anything to help themselves. Why should snipers be penalized for it?

**Coridon** · 04-17-2006, 01:47 AM

Originally Posted by SgtDuke

We're going to increase sniper rifle accuracy a notch in the next release. We'll keep doing this until we find the setting where snipers are happy with their performance and people aren't reporting that they didn't have any fun because they were constantly being sniped.

Yeah, what Duke said

.

**FBmantis** · 04-17-2006, 06:06 AM

I was curious so I did a test. All it takes it two people:

- One US sniper.
- One MEC medic.

Have medic stand there and hold out his medic bag so he self heals. Then have US Sniper shoot the medic in the body over and over. The point was to see how nerfed the damage was since I have not played 1.0 yet. The result was the medic would finally die on the third shot. Three may not sound too bad but I am not factoring in many factors.

- I was firing as quickly as possible. In a real situation you would wait for a decent shot.
- You will likely miss a lot. If you missed just one of the 1st three shots you would likely not kill him with a full clip regardless of whether or not the other 5 shots all hit.
- If there is another medic or supply drop you will never kill them even if you put 6 clips into them.(cept for the headshot)
- The accuracy has been reduced which will affect things at long ranges.
- A medic doesn't have body armor. Imagine trying to take down an assault or support with consecutive shots while a medic is healing them. You likely couldn't do it. They could just walk in a circle and mock you.

Just 10 minutes of play is all I need to agree with Jusb and I'm glad Duke plans to change things in the future. In the right hands snipers should be feared. I'm sure as they are now they are just targets to laught at. With the spawn timer capped at 30 I think you'll find that the right mix would be the same accuracy and slightly reduced damage as tg vanilla but with the slower tac mod reload will work best.

The reason snipers were so powerful and prevelant pre 1.0 was due to a few factors:

- The spawn time was very high. No one wants to risk there life to hunt down a sniper. Plus if you did hunt them and failed they would likely have 60 secs to displace to another location.
- Lots of people thought slower gameplay meant you could stand still and not suffer any consequences. As jusb said...why should snipers be penalized for poor movement on the enemies part.
- No ability for the commander to spot incoming troops means squads are walking to their destination a LOT more. Walking out in the open is just asking to be sniped...

**Coridon** · 04-17-2006, 08:07 AM

Excellent points, Mantis. What I think would be ideal is what Trooper suggests and limit the number of sniper kits available per side and their hitting power could be improved drastically, but I don't think that type of modding is available for BF2. I know RO only had one sniper per side and if they were skilled it made a huge impact on your teams overall performance, but of course the maps in RO are pretty small as well.

**FBmantis** · 04-17-2006, 01:40 PM

No kit should ever have a limit. The only reason for such a move is if one kit is completely overpowered and you have no way to downgrade that kit. However Duke has the ability to adjust values to reduce a kits effectiveness and I'm sure over time he will find the right balance.

**eGoatBoy** · 04-17-2006, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by FBmantis

No kit should ever have a limit. The only reason for such a move is if one kit is completely overpowered and you have no way to downgrade that kit. However Duke has the ability to adjust values to reduce a kits effectiveness and I'm sure over time he will find the right balance.

As unrealistic as it would be to have many snipers running around, the same holds true for anti-tank, support etc. I used to think that the number of snipers on the field should be limited but I now tend to agree with Mantis.

As for balance, an inaccurate sniper rifle is no longer a sniper rifle. The balancing factors should be less ammo, and longer delay between shots. Reload time isn't so relevant...a magazine is a magazine.

Nerfing the accuracy of the sniper rifle is a mistake IMHO.

Cheers.

**Trooper** · 04-17-2006, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by eGoatBoy

As unrealistic as it would be to have many snipers running around, the same holds true for anti-tank, support etc. I used to think that the number of snipers on the field should be limited but I now tend to agree with Mantis.

As for balance, an inaccurate sniper rifle is no longer a sniper rifle. The balancing factors should be less ammo, and longer delay between shots. Reload time isn't so relevant...a magazine is a magazine.

Nerfing the accuracy of the sniper rifle is a mistake IMHO.

Cheers.

If the tac Mod is going for a realistic feel, then limiting is a great way to make it realistic. Making a limit on the snipers then giving them a better hitting power instead of more accuracy will make the snipers roll on the map that much more important. Only those that are good at sniping would get that roll instead of any one doing it.

**Thierry** · 04-17-2006, 02:47 PM

True, but even the average sniper should be able to get a kill IMO, if you rely on a single person to be a sniper and he goes offline or something, then any enemy sniper will completely own a squad.
Setting the hit damage back to what it was in Vanilla, increasing the time between reloading a bullet and decreasing the total amount of magazines should help.