Re: Controlling a zone instead of a flag pole

**loyalguard** · 06-03-2006, 02:35 PM

Duke-

That sounds great...thanks for the update!

**loyalguard** · 06-23-2006, 12:25 PM

This is a two part post. First, I really dig the new flag radii and capture logic. I think it is adding a new dimension to tac mod tactics. I understand that the devs may tweak the individual sizes in later releases and I like that idea as well.

Second, along the theme of the quote below from Whiskey earlier in this thread:

Originally Posted by WhiskeySix

may sound strange, and not to hijack the thread, but I was thinking about maps with NO capturable flags... it'd be all about killing the enemy: but you'd have the option of either hunkering down in favorable terrain (occupying a 'zone') or being agressive and seeking out a dug-in squad... the more i think about it, the more i want to try it......

My wife and kids are going out of town for three weeks (muhahaha!) and instead of just sitting around eating Totino's pizza rolls and playing BF2 during my "free" time (well, I'm gonna eat Totino's pizza rolls regardless) I'm going to take a shot at designing a tac mod map along the lines of what Whiskey proposes above (Yes, I realize it will probably take longer than 3 weeks to do).

I think it is ideal to do it as a custom map so there is no sudden confusion (Hey...I thought there was a hotel flag here?) and it will give people a chance to explore a new map. In addition to all the great ideas Whiskey and others have had in this thread, the culminating motivation for this was how much fun I've had on Steel Thunder NOT in armor and being able to maneuver around "freely" on a huge map.

I will continue this discussion in the maps and mods forum but I just wanted to put it out there and get some feedback.

**WhiskeySix** · 06-23-2006, 01:03 PM

hahaha - I just realized this wasn't my idea originally - to give credit where it's due, Shafik came up with the idea about three months back:

Originally Posted by Shafik

And an Objective Game mode would be great. Plus the ability to change the number of spawns each player gets. And I just had an idea for a map, could be fun: a small, open stretch of desert, with two paraspawn points. Rocks and terrain form cover, other than that - nothing. It's pure squad movement, flanking and staying alive. How intense would that be. Is it possible to construct a map with NO flags? Where it's all about kills?

where you'd parachute in at the spawn points

**aculle01** · 06-24-2006, 02:28 PM

I was thinking about whiskey/shafik's ideas of an open, CPless map. The problem arises where there is no real objective other than kill the other squads. Yes, real life there are no CPs that cause bleed but if action is decided to be taken there is a clear objective (capture a VIP, take out communications, seize control of an important post/crossroads). BF2 has none of these other than CPs that form little deathmatch like arenas. The maps are pretty much even in layout where neither side holds superior ground no matter what CP's they have. I think John's ammuntion supply line idea came closest to trying to simulate a battlefield feel rather than teams running around a single map.
My idea would be to have a map with a small number of CPs on either two sides or one side of the map.
I chose Daging Oilfield because I have also been intrigued by the USMC's UCB base as a defensable position but since its a UCB there is never any fighting around it.

In this example both sides are equal (I meant to remove the Chinese UCB icon). So both sides can attack/defend there established positions, setup ambushes in between, and/or control strategic points.
You can also set it up where the USMC is essentially on defense (or viceversa) in which it needs to hold off a Chinese attack. The USMC will have a longer respawn time to give the attackers an artifical numerical superiority. The USMC commander will have the option to either send out a number of squads to slow the Chinese advance and hold certain choak points or hunker down and attempt to hold off a full assault. The two forward chinese bases will be capturable and if captured will limit the amount of armor/vehicles the chinese can use. The USMC will still have blackhawks to get sorties out and threaten chinese positions so the chinese cannot setup a wall around the peninsula and trap the USMC in. This is a rough sketch but I think its a compromise between the zero CPs and what we have currently.

thebleakaffinity · 06-26-2006, 06:05 PM

I just wanted to say that the zone logic has probably been the best Tacmod based change yet. There's something really fun about having to hunt down everyone within that 35m radius. Specialized zones for each flag would also increase the awesomeness, though it'd probably take a lot of work.

**Santa** · 06-26-2006, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by thebleakaffinity

I just wanted to say that the zone logic has probably been the best Tacmod based change yet. There's something really fun about having to hunt down everyone within that 35m radius. Specialized zones for each flag would also increase the awesomeness, though it'd probably take a lot of work.

Indeed, the awesomeness would go through the roof if they were all specialized. Speaking of roofs, in abadan the USMC can capture the harbor from the roof, and its extremely difficult to get them off of there because MEC doesnt have a transport helo. If you get into specialized zones, youll have to make sure that all parts of the cap radius are accessible by both teams.

**asch** · 06-26-2006, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by Santa

Indeed, the awesomeness would go through the roof if they were all specialized. Speaking of roofs, in abadan the USMC can capture the harbor from the roof, and its extremely difficult to get them off of there because MEC doesnt have a transport helo. If you get into specialized zones, youll have to make sure that all parts of the cap radius are accessible by both teams.

Yep, when we look at each CP, we'll do our best to avoid situations like this.

**WhiskeySix** · 06-26-2006, 08:31 PM

The capture zone is just a circle right? So you'll just be adjusting the radius? (i.e. you can't 'draw' the zone can you?)

**asch** · 06-26-2006, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by WhiskeySix

The capture zone is just a circle right? So you'll just be adjusting the radius? (i.e. you can't 'draw' the zone can you?)

That's correct. We'll be adjusting the size of the radius and in some cases moving the flag.

**loyalguard** · 06-27-2006, 05:00 AM

Originally Posted by asch

That's correct. We'll be adjusting the size of the radius and in some cases moving the flag.

Ah, yes...I was wondering if you were going to move the flag. This is an excellent decision. If you think about a CP like Natural Gas on Zatar, the flag is near the western fence line, not in the middle of the compund so the zone would not fill the whole compound and even extend outside the fence line when increased in size. I imagine it would look like example B below. So, if you moved the flag, would it look like example C where it is positioned so that the circle fills as much of the compound as possible? If so, I like it!

Diagrams are estimates and not to scale

**asch** · 06-27-2006, 07:35 AM

That is the idea.

**Coridon** · 06-28-2006, 02:11 AM

Excellent diagrams, Loyal!

Originally Posted by Santa

Speaking of roofs, in abadan the USMC can capture the harbor from the roof, and its extremely difficult to get them off of there because MEC doesnt have a transport helo.

I think due to the custom maps being new a lot of people still are hit with situations like this even though they can be overcome, we haven't seen the scenario unfold a hundred times so it's not second nature to eliminate the threat yet.

A possible solution would be the following:

Defending Harbor against airborne insertion, Checkpoint Abadan

First of all, it's important to remember that with the current flag capture logic USMC cannot cap that flag from the roof if there are MEC defenders in the radius.

A squad of six defending the Harbor could be broken up thus: two infantry on the catwalk in the hangar itself waiting to ambush any enemies that enter the flag radius. Two outside to the north operating the APC and tank. Another two on the crane to watch for swimmers to the north and perhaps harass USMC stationed at the Checkpoint flag (practice hitting targets with unguided rockets at range!). A CO could keep those two guys with a steady stream of supply crates...

The squad defending Waterfront could put two guys in the water tower; one support and one AT. They too could harass anything coming across the bridge and could also drive off anyone that lands on the roof of the Harbor flag building.

Lastly, give the mobile AA to the squad defending Suburb flag and position it on the hill west of the harbor (if blackhawks are spotted it can use that western road to move north/south to give chase). Toss in the possibility that the fixed AA at construction site is manned, and there are .50 cals being used at Waterfront, Construction Site and Suburb it could be pretty costly for USMC to try and land/HALO onto the roof at Harbor.

It's pretty imperative for MEC to hold the Harbor flag on that map, because if they lose it they lose their tank, APC and mobile AA. Luckily it's pretty easy to defend if the squad(s) tasked with doing so are well dug-in...

EDIT: There's also a crane at Construction Site for putting fire on that rooftop