Discussion: Battlefield 2 Tactical Mod / Battlefield 2 Tactical Mod - Feedback & Suggestions - Operation Phoenix (long) - First off, I would like to thank everyone for all the positive feedback I’ve got
First off, I would like to thank everyone for all the positive feedback I’ve got for my first map, which really motivates me to make more. This thread is for people interested in participating in the development of Tactical Mod by helping me make a map tailored for TG TacMod players.
I’ve been thinking about this map ever since I finished Inishail, trying to find unique and more objective based ways of making a map. Playing Steel Thunder yesterday inspired me to incorporate 2 different types of gameplay in the same map, similar to the way Unreal Tournament’s “Assault” game mode works (but to a much lesser extent obviously due to the limitations of BF2). This is an ambitious map, I have no interest in making Strike at Karkand 17 and doing something unique is the only way to stay above the sea of generic custom map floating around in the community. Almost every gameplay element in this project is already possible in BF2 so I know it’s not too ambitious.
Operation Phoenix Setting: Middle-East, mid-day. A mix of GRAW’s city/slums maps and Sharqi’s “resort” environments. Mission Briefing: After months of campaign in the Middle-East, US armed forces are closing in on the region’s most valuable assets and are launching Operation Phoenix, a series of air insertions by the Marines to secure the areas surrounding the Middle-East’s urban centers.
This map has 3 distinctive stages to provide 3 gameplay types and a better sense of assault/defense instead of randomly running around to capture flags. All 3 of the stages are meant to provide a new and unique experience.
(Bear with me here, there’s a reason I asked for help to make Photoshop billboards as you will see in the following “illustrations” )
Stage 1: The paratrooper insertion
The US will spawn in a cargo plane (the one from SF), possibly 2 planes for size issues and to provide a secondary drop point so it’s harder for the MEC to defend. They will drop onto a large trainyard with a lot of buildings and cover. The train terminal (the airport terminal from SF with all the windows) will be the main point of interest, with the flag inside. This flag starts as a MEC flag but is only capturable by the USMC, effectively making it their UCB when they capture it. I liked the idea that you needed to capture your own UCB before you could use it. The idea is that the MEC has many AA sites set up around the base and on the terminal roof, preventing USMC from airdropping hardware at low-altitude. USMC must take control of the terminal and wipe out the AA threat.
This stage will hopefully look really cool due to the mass airdrop and will start off the map with a bang, with the entire MEC team fighting off the entire USMC team. I’ll make it hard to defend for the MEC so the map doesn’t stall there.
Stage 2: The tank wars
Reference of the environment I want for golf course/fields (hopefully no tanks get stuck in-game )
This stage exists solely because I played Steel Thunder in TacMod . Upon capturing the trainyard and making it their UCB, the skies are secure for hardware airdrops. The MEC is pushed back to the MEC Outpost which is situated near the “back entrance” of the city. The main entrance to the city is blocked off to any vehicle type by a large roadblock.
This is where it gets fun. 16 tanks (2 people per tank) spawn on each side, at the trainyard and the MEC outpost. These tanks will only spawn once. The spawn time will be set so high that they won’t ever respawn by the time the map is over. The USMC’s tanks will be airdropped if I can get it working (like a vehicle drop but controlled by the capture of the CP), if I can’t get airdrops, they will spawn in 2 large warehouses. Now, since these tanks only spawn once, it’s important that they don’t get destroyed by lingering MEC forces inside the trainyard. For this reason, there will be a 60 seconds delay between the capture of the CP by USMC and the time they spawn, giving them time to clear out the warehouses and remove any mines left by the MEC. Multiple Humvees will spawn about 2 minutes after the CP is captured, forcing people to use the tanks right away for the upcoming tank wars. There will basically be a really large 16 vs 16 tank battle over the fields and golf course, ultimately leading up to Stage 3. The goal of Stage 2 is for USMC to capture the MEC outpost, which will then turn into a second UCB for the USMC. Note that both the Terminal and the MEC Outpost will not count towards the bleed. Only the 5 CPs in the city will.
Stage 3: Tactical urban infantry-only combat:
“Concept” screenshots of the kind of look I hope to recreate throughout the city. A “downtown” feel inspired by Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter’s mexico city levels.
Following Stage 2, three scenarios are possible. 2-3 tanks remaining on either side or MEC wipeout resulting in 10+ US tanks remaining or vice versa. In the case of one team having 2-3 tanks left, it shouldn’t be a problem for infantry to take out. In the case of USMC having 10+ tanks left, the only vehicle access into the city will be through the “backdoor” past the MEC outpost. This route will go straight through the slums, which will have a single narrow path that is ideal for ambush by the MEC Reference picture of the slums route. The tanks will be very vulnerable going through the slums and the few that get through will eventually be destroyed in the fight for the city. In the case of MEC having 10+ tanks left, I’m still not sure how I’ll take care of that. Humvees would be fodder to the tanks. I might try to place a few TOWs around the field/golf course for people to sneak to and take out the tanks with.
Now, I don’t have the city laid out yet but it will have the parking garage from SF. The city will have a lot of cover and no roofs will be accessible (or very very few). Keeping with the idea of GRAW’s levels, it’ll have wide streets with cover to force people to use smoke to cross and slow the gameplay down. Tactical movement and flanking will be the emphasis. The middle flag of the city will have no spawn points and will be a large plaza with the tower from Ghost Town in SF and a mosque. You will have to reinforce it from another CP.
The city is where most of the map will take place. Only the 5 city CPs will count towards bleed. Keep in mind the map will be huge (Daqing size) so there’s plenty of room for the tank battle.
Note that you won’t need SF to play it, the SF assets will be included in the map. Apparently you can use anything from the expansion as long as it’s on an unranked server or something.
Whew that was long. For the 3 of you that actually made it to this line, what possible issues do you see with this scenario? What about possible imbalances/exploits? The airdrop will be low enough so that you’re forced to fight for the Terminal and not glide all the way to the city/MEC outpost. The tank spawns will be on a delay so that they don’t get mined and instantly destroyed as they spawn. The city will be hard to enter with vehicles so that there’s no huge armor column in the city...what else?
Reading through quickly I have three questions/observations:
1) There seems to be a lot of "dead space" in the upper left corner...do you have a plan for that?
2) If only the flags in the city itself control bleed, why wouldn't MEC just pull all their armor into the city and guard the narrow approaches through the walls, essentially giving up the "MEC Outpost" off the bat??
3) Unless you somehow incorporate the AAS mod, I don't see why USMC infantry couldn't just sneak through the grass and hit the city from the north, bypassing the armor battle altogether. Once they have a flag in the city there's really no reason to continue to slug it out with MEC armor outside the city walls, and like I said there's really no reason for MEC to fight outside the city walls in the first place if those flags don't count towards bleed.
I'm going to reread the post and see if I missed something that make my questions/observations look foolish...
I have a suggestion for the bleed aspect. Perhaps EVERY flag could be setup starting as MEC, but are only captureable by the USMC. Basically, MEC has to hold out long enough to bleed all the USMC tickets down to 0 without being wiped off the map.
To take care of the possibility of the MEC being a bunch of pansies and taking all the armor into the city, perhaps the MEC armor must fight through the USMC armor to get to the city? This might pose another problem because the USMC could possibly be a bunch of pansies and run off to the undefended city, capping every base.
Anyway, i love the objective based feel to the map. Very cool.
Hmm good point. Didn't think about MEC pulling all the armor into the city. The way I'm making it they wouldn't really get a shot on the tanks outside the city from inside, but they could still ambush US tanks in the slums and basically just bunch them up.
Blocking the vehicle access to the city on both sides would fix it but I'd kinda like to see USMC have a few tanks live thru the fight and move into the city. Might even put a few more US tanks than MEC ones.
As far as USMC bypassing the tank battle, it's a possibility and if I can edit in a "supply line" for only those 2 flags, I will, but if I can't then I'll make the map more linear than it is on the minimap...like have the city below the MEC Outpost in a sort of large valley so the MEC would see the enemy sneaking thru. This way it would be suicide for USMC to even try to go forward without the tanks.
Santa, I'd love to do that if BF2 allowed for more gameplay events and things like you find in UT2004 but I think it'd be hard to make a map where MEC can't take back any flags, even with AAS.
Coridon, the minimaps I posted are just very rough ideas of what I want, there won't be any dead space in the combat zone.
This sounds really really fun!
A few questions before I provide some feedback:
1.)Is the MEC output going to be recapturable by the MEC forces?
2.)Can US attack any flag from the beginning?
yeah, i was thinking the same thing... you could skip the tank battle and send a couple ninja SL's in jeeps to cap one of the 5 back flags...
as far as the layout in the city, I like lots and lots of LOW cover...stuff you can duck behind, but shoot over... I've had a lot of good firefights on Inishail along the wall that runs along the south side of the lake... one squad behind the wall and another up on the hill south of it...
This sounds really really fun!
A few questions before I provide some feedback:
1.)Is the MEC output going to be recapturable by the MEC forces?
2.)Can US attack any flag from the beginning?
1)The MEC Outpost is only capturable by the USMC but will start as MEC. MEC won't be able to take it back, it will become the USMC's second UCB, closer to the city in case they get pushed out of the city.
2)That is one issue but if I make the map more linear than it is on the minimap so that you have to get thru the MEC's tanks to even enter the city, I don't see how the USMC can enter the city and skip the tank fight. Implementing Supply Lines (AAS) would force USMC to capture the MEC outpost but then I'd need to have AAS on every flag too...
Jeeps at the terminal will spawn 1 minute after the tanks, so people will want to just grab the tanks first.
Heres a possible way to avoid people just sending tanks to the city immediatly. Mountains surround the hills/golf course tank arena with just a valley exit to the south. This exit has a semicircle of hills around so that if either side trys to escape before the tank battle is over, the enemy has an advantage of height and can easily take care of the escaping tanks. Of course the MEC Outpost and Terminal could be adjusted or another terrain obstacle could be between the 2 cps so that both sides have time to get their tanks into a good position for the battle. I think the best way to avoid people leaving the tank battle for the city is to make a giant chokepoint that is the only exit out of the tank arena. If you leave, youll have to accept the fact that youll be outnumbered as far as tanks go in the city.
I definatly think that whoever wins the tank battle should therefore have an advantage in the city. It will be much easier to either defend positions or take positions in the city with the aid of tanks to bust through.
Last thing, Icky could probably help with making all the city bases only captureable by one team. That would be such a neat way to do a map and i think itd be somewhat realistic as well. If an invading force is attacking a city, the defending force generally does not try to regain lost parts of the city. They simply fall back and defend a secondary, tertiary, or quaternary (quaternary?) position. If you go this route, the CPs have to be very easy to defend.
Heres a possible way to avoid people just sending tanks to the city immediatly. Mountains surround the hills/golf course tank arena with just a valley exit to the south. This exit has a semicircle of hills around so that if either side trys to escape before the tank battle is over, the enemy has an advantage of height and can easily take care of the escaping tanks. Of course the MEC Outpost and Terminal could be adjusted or another terrain obstacle could be between the 2 cps so that both sides have time to get their tanks into a good position for the battle. I think the best way to avoid people leaving the tank battle for the city is to make a giant chokepoint that is the only exit out of the tank arena. If you leave, youll have to accept the fact that youll be outnumbered as far as tanks go in the city.
I definatly think that whoever wins the tank battle should therefore have an advantage in the city. It will be much easier to either defend positions or take positions in the city with the aid of tanks to bust through.
Last thing, Icky could probably help with making all the city bases only captureable by one team. That would be such a neat way to do a map and i think itd be somewhat realistic as well. If an invading force is attacking a city, the defending force generally does not try to regain lost parts of the city. They simply fall back and defend a secondary, tertiary, or quaternary (quaternary?) position. If you go this route, the CPs have to be very easy to defend.
That's a good idea Santa but then the problem is USMC doesn't have a CP near the city and it'd take a while to get to the city from the MEC outpost or Terminal with only jeeps. I don't want to add any air because then people will just find the highest roof and camp it for the entire map.
It is not often that I encounter across myself when researching a topic. I found the following in a recent article on the uses of ethnography in virtual environments:
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