Increasing the Value of Life

**Acid** · 06-25-2006, 03:00 PM

We always talk about how we want to prevent "throwing bodies at a flag," and we have changed the kits and spawn times to reflect that, but why not take it a bit farther. Increase the death penalty from one ticket to two or three so dying outweights flag bleed and CO's and SL's will have to really think about how to minimize the loss of life.

**asch** · 06-25-2006, 03:31 PM

Do you think this would lead to players trying to kill more instead of control the objectives?

**Acid** · 06-25-2006, 03:34 PM

Good point.

**aculle01** · 06-25-2006, 04:27 PM

Isnt one of the problems with the setup of BF2 the fact that fighting usually gets centralized around the CPs instead of the whole map?

**Rick_the_new_guy** · 06-25-2006, 04:36 PM

good point aculle 01.

I think i'll start a thread on such matters.

**icky** · 06-25-2006, 04:40 PM

The best way to make people value their in-game lives is to physically punish them in real life. Where's that link to the shock controller now...

**Acid** · 06-25-2006, 05:02 PM

Mabey a moral system that affects the running meter and reduces aim accuracy?

**asch** · 06-25-2006, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by aculle01

Isnt one of the problems with the setup of BF2 the fact that fighting usually gets centralized around the CPs instead of the whole map?

I think that's more of a map design problem. Based on the terrain, objects and number of CPs there could easily be battles that rage away from the flags.

**Santa** · 06-25-2006, 07:26 PM

Asch is right, its mostly map design. The maps that have TONS of space require defending squads to stay near the flag. If they venture out to battle away from the flag, its risky because its so easy to just walk on the edge of the map for 10 minutes and hit the flag while the defending squad is away, expecting the assault to come from somewhere else. To have battles away from flags, the map design has to be such that defending squads wont feel a risk by moving farther away from the flag to defend a crossroad/bridge/whatever that leads to the CP they are defending.

**loyalguard** · 06-26-2006, 12:24 PM

I think the new dual spawn-timer system has done a lot for valuing life. I have also suggested "bleeding" (you slowly lose health after taking a certain amount of damage until you die or are healed by a medic) as a further measure if warranted.

Here's my latest idea: (Oh boy, the medic specialists are gonna hate me!) Take away the med pack from the medic kit. Why?

A front line medic in RL is going to stablize (stop bleeding, give fluids, etc.) you until you can be evacuated. Healing would be done at an aid station. Yes, I know there are no aid stations (like the med cabinets in BF1942) but there are supply crates that can heal. So if you are seriously wounded but are still ambulatory, your SL/CO need to coordinate and have a supply box dropped to act as an "aid station" and/or ammo resupply point. (Ok, I know there isn't always a CO to drop a supply box, more on this later). If you are "killed" and still in your "critically wounded" timer, the medic still has shock paddles to revive (stabilize you) with one bar of health so you can fall back and get healed by a crate. CO's could even use the crates to support multiple squads.

The above could result in scenarios like this.

Scenario 1
========
(Squads 1 & 2 are relatively close to each other)

CO: Squads 1 & 2, I have dropped a supply crate at the bridge to your East for re-supply/Healing.
SL 1: Squad 1 copies.
SL 2: Roger that commander.

Scenario 2
========
(You are in a firefight and only have a few bars of life left)

Smith: Leader this is Smith, I am seriously wounded w/ only 3 bars.
SL: Fall back to the bridge to the east to get healed and then report back to me.
SM: Roger that.

Scenario 3
=======
(You are "killed" and your critically wounded timer has been activated - no exisiting supply box)

Smith: Leader, this is Smith, I am down.
SL: Medic, Smoke and revive Smith...Squad, covering fire for the medic!
(Zap)
Medic: Smith is up.
SL: Smith...Fall back...I will request a supply drop from the commander to heal you.
Smith: Roger.
SL: Commander this is squad 1, I have wounded...requesting supply drop south of my position.
CO: Supply box coming.

Okay, there are two possible flaws in the logic.

1) As I stated above, what if there is no CO? I have seen a lot more CO's on tac mod lately which is great but in case of no CO, maybe supply crates could automatically spawn near a flag when you capture it. This would obviously require some coding changes.

2) Re-Spawn time vs. Healing time incentive: In general, if you are far away from a supply crate (limited number of crates, far away from a CP, etc.) so that by the time you wait for or make it to a crate, get healed, and come back to the front if it takes longer than it would for you to die and re-spawn, there may be the problem that the player will not go get healed and just choose to die and respawn. Hopefully this wouldn't be a problem since that means that your team loses a ticket when they don'y have to, but it would be good to have a safeguard against this (any ideas?)

Finally, I don't think and this is not intended to de-value the role of the medic class. If there is thought that if this is implemented that it would de-value their role, then maybe they could keep their med bag, but you could increase the time needed to heal even more (I think the last increase was great) or maybe the medic can only get you to half-full health and you have to go to a crate to get fully healed. Lots-o-options.

Anyway, this is just an idea so please praise/trash it as you see fit.

**WhiskeySix** · 06-26-2006, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by loyalguard

I think the new dual spawn-timer system has done a lot for valuing life. I have also suggested "bleeding" (you slowly lose health after taking a certain amount of damage until you die or are healed by a medic) as a further measure if warranted.

Here's my latest idea: (Oh boy, the medic specialists are gonna hate me!) Take away the med pack from the medic kit. Why?

A front line medic in RL is going to stablize (stop bleeding, give fluids, etc.) you until you can be evacuated.

very interesting... this would definitely make you value your life more and play more cautiously! I'm not sure if it'd make tacmod more or less fun, but it'd certainly make things slower.

**El_Gringo_Grande** · 06-26-2006, 04:29 PM

Isn't there talk of limiting the ability of a player that has low health?

So if you only have 1 or 2 bars you couldn't move, less than half you can't sprint ect.

**Acid** · 06-26-2006, 05:38 PM

I'm playing a bit of a devil's advocate here, but why wouldn't that player just want to die and come back full strength with all full ammo and all abilities, than be revived and then have to wait for health before they can attack again? Wouldn't it be faster to die and come back than have to go through the proposed process? Again, I am playing the devil's advocate.

**Dick Blonov** · 06-26-2006, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by black death5

I'm playing a bit of a devil's advocate here, but why wouldn't that player just want to die and come back full strength with all full ammo and all abilities, than be revived and then have to wait for health before they can attack again? Wouldn't it be faster to die and come back than have to go through the proposed process? Again, I am playing the devil's advocate.

Good point, if you die out of ammo, you should come back out of ammo. Not sure this can be done though. But I've witnessed this and have been told «don't revive me».

DB