A Couple of Issues with 1.3

**PhoenixxFire** · 07-21-2006, 07:51 PM

Well after playing last night for a long while, I have to say that I am really impressed with the TacMod in its current incarnation, as well as it's constant progression. Kudos to the Dev team for making this a great Mod, and the time put into it.

However... as my title states, after playing this while (with as much variation per round as I could, to learn all the intricacies of the changes) I found 2 items that I thought could use revision, or maybe a bit more discussion about.

1): I'll bring up a subject that has been talked about quite a bit before in the TacMod. The OpFor sniper rifles. Now i have absolutely no gripe with the zoom distance, or even the overall accuracy of all of the sniper rifles in general. However, what I did see as a major problem when playing some time as a sniper, was the firing rate (or rechambering, it might be technically) of the SVD/Type 95(or is it 85?), in conjunction with the other issues.

In more than one instance in which I was on level ground at Med-Long range (approximately 50-100+ Meters) with an opponent who was using a SAW, the opponent wiped me out from behind decent cover, because of the fact that I couldn't get a single shot onto him, or make confirmation of a hit, before I was killed by one of his tracer rounds right into my head(Very cool to see I might add!), within seconds of firing my 2nd or possibly 3rd shot.

This to me was very disconcerting, since I consider myself at least a good sniper shot.

It seems to me that the the only advantage that these OpFor rifles have in oppsition to the USMC is the amount of shots one can take before being noticed and engaged. But due to the recycling rate of the current TacMod setting, it makes it nearly null, compared to the M24.

This is of course my opinion, but I believe it it might be something that requires a bit more tweaking.

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2): This is something that was just changed with this last release, and it has to do with the capture rate of a given flag. I'm not at all certain why this was changed since the last version. Considering that I have personally seen no real comments, good or bad, that stemmed from the rate at which a flag was captured in the last version. For me, the previous version had it pretty much spot on in this respect.

What I noted though that concerned me was the fact that this sort of provoked a bit more of a "Rush the flag with everyone" type of response, especially with the inclusion to the flag capture logic, in which 4 times the ammount of units can capture a flag from a single unit. In which maybe a single person was used to cover the flag to keep over-watch (or even possibly 2 units, spaced slightly farther out), and the attacking squad moved entirely into the flag radius, and immediately captured the flag. And I actually saw this from the attacking squads perspective numerous times throughout the night.

However I'm not really certain that this response was really intended, it just became a simple mechanic that I found intuitive to do when I saw the effect. By that I mean that it seems that a squad that is more agressive would be able to wipe a flag almost instantaneously if the entire squad were to move in very quickly into the flag.

And it was my belief that the TacMod was geared towards slowing things down.

But once again its my opinion, but I believe it's something that should be discussed and looked over to make sure that the TacMod takes the best possible route to its final version.

**asch** · 07-21-2006, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by PhoenixxFire

1): I'll bring up a subject that has been talked about quite a bit before in the TacMod. The OpFor sniper rifles. Now i have absolutely no gripe with the zoom distance, or even the overall accuracy of all of the sniper rifles in general. However, what I did see as a major problem when playing some time as a sniper, was the firing rate (or rechambering, it might be technically) of the SVD/Type 95(or is it 85?), in conjunction with the other issues.

In more than one instance in which I was on level ground at Med-Long range (approximately 50-100+ Meters) with an opponent who was using a SAW, the opponent wiped me out from behind decent cover, because of the fact that I couldn't get a single shot onto him, or make confirmation of a hit, before I was killed by one of his tracer rounds right into my head(Very cool to see I might add!), within seconds of firing my 2nd or possibly 3rd shot.

This to me was very disconcerting, since I consider myself at least a good sniper shot.

It seems to me that the the only advantage that these OpFor rifles have in oppsition to the USMC is the amount of shots one can take before being noticed and engaged. But due to the recycling rate of the current TacMod setting, it makes it nearly null, compared to the M24.

This is of course my opinion, but I believe it it might be something that requires a bit more tweaking.

The difference between the OpFor sniper rifles in Tac mod and vanilla is the fire rate. Everything else should be the same. And that fire rate is 60 shots per minute. When we researched the weapon, it fires at 30 shots per minute.

Accuracy should be the same as vanilla.

2): This is something that was just changed with this last release, and it has to do with the capture rate of a given flag. I'm not at all certain why this was changed since the last version. Considering that I have personally seen no real comments, good or bad, that stemmed from the rate at which a flag was captured in the last version. For me, the previous version had it pretty much spot on in this respect.

What I noted though that concerned me was the fact that this sort of provoked a bit more of a "Rush the flag with everyone" type of response, especially with the inclusion to the flag capture logic, in which 4 times the ammount of units can capture a flag from a single unit. In which maybe a single person was used to cover the flag to keep over-watch (or even possibly 2 units, spaced slightly farther out), and the attacking squad moved entirely into the flag radius, and immediately captured the flag. And I actually saw this from the attacking squads perspective numerous times throughout the night.

However I'm not really certain that this response was really intended, it just became a simple mechanic that I found intuitive to do when I saw the effect. By that I mean that it seems that a squad that is more agressive would be able to wipe a flag almost instantaneously if the entire squad were to move in very quickly into the flag.

We made this change to try and fix some bugs we were seeing with the flags. It basically represents a flag going instant neutral which we had before. The flag will go neutral when the assaulting team has more units than the defending team.... which is the same as the previous release.

The difference from the last release is that one unit cannot keep a flag neutral when there are four or more opposing units. So if you're seeing a squad quickly take a flag, then there doesn't seem to be enough units defending. The zones are rather large and for the most part, fit any defined compounds. If the defending units are not within the compound, then they won't effectively have control over it. It only takes two units in the zone to keep a flag neutral from seven or less attackers. The ratio required is 4:1.

And it was my belief that the TacMod was geared towards slowing things down.

We're not necessarily trying to slow it down. Here are the goals from the FAQ.

Create a framework & environment where players feel immersed in the battle.
Promote the execution of planned squad-based strategy & tactics.
Balance classes, kits, and vehicles.
Provide a near-simulation / realistic experience.

But once again its my opinion, but I believe it's something that should be discussed and looked over to make sure that the TacMod takes the best possible route to its final version.

Thanks for bringing this up. We definitely want to hear what everyone thinks. We hope players continue to test out the new features. It is frustrating when players try to take advantage of a feature and we constantly have to adjust to find the right specs.

**Santa** · 07-21-2006, 08:56 PM

I agree with phx's first point about the opfor sniper rifles. There is really no point in calling them semi-auto sniper rifles when they shoot that slowly. If i snipe in tacmod, i dont use the opfor sniper rifles anymore because i know ill be outshot by a support gunner, or really any rifleman for that matter. In vanilla, the quick shooting of the opfor rifles makes up for the poor zoom on the scopes, and the poor crosshairs. In tacmod, the only good thing about the opfor rifles is taken away.

**PhoenixxFire** · 07-21-2006, 09:16 PM

Ok, thank you for the quick response.

As for the sniper, I didn't know the specifics, but I guess we should be very thankful that you are very forgiving in respects to the actual firing rate

Although, I still can't put my finger on it, I think I'll have to spend s bit more time with the rifle to familiarize myself with it's variability.
Although, I still believe that all the rifles should be able to adjust the zoom scoping capability. Even though, at its current settings, I think this might actually develope the need for actual sniper teams (One sniper, and a spotter with the binoculars to confirm hits and misses). Unless of course the spcifications of these rifles (Real Life or otherwise) render that incapable.

In response to the Flag Capture Logic: I understand the changes made with the ability to capture a flag with the 4:1 ratio of attackers to defenders, and I thought this was a good idea and addition. What I have a problem with is the speed with which the flag is captured in instances like this. I believe that it should go up appropriate to what is currently set (the advantage being to the side that has the 4:1 ratio of units present), however the speed at which it goes up when at least a single enemy is present should, I believe, be set to what was in the previous version (the normal setting for just a regular capture).

To clarify with an example: Currently, if a squad (4 or more) attacks and enters the flag radius of a flag in which 1 enemy is present within the same flag radius, the flag goes up to the attackers side (in this case) within what seems to be a second (seemingly instantaneous, however I have no idea what the actual time setting is for this).
What I'm proposing is that in that same situation, if the flag capture timing where set to what it was previously, the flag would still go up in advantage to the attackers (again, in this scenario) but just slightly slower, allowing a few precious seconds to possibly call back in the rest of the defending force, which may not have been very far, but farther than the flag radius.

Once again, this is how I'm percieving the matters at hand, and would like to see what the dev.'s think about it. And I'll defintely keep the goal framework in mind when assessing and addressing any issues that I might see in the future.

thebleakaffinity · 07-24-2006, 04:22 AM

In keeping with the notion of supporting gameplay in a near simulation environment, I think both the Opfor sniper rifles and the attack chopper guns should be beefed up a bit, to the point where they're at least effective in a real world setting. Essentially, there's no way a squad of infantry, with no AT, should be able to survive an encounter in the open with an attack helo, and as a sometimes gunner and pilot I've seen this happen way too often.

**jaymind** · 07-26-2006, 05:22 PM

One of the issues I ran across from last Sunday was in using the MEC Support weapon. I and Dustermahn both noticed that the accuracy of the weapon seems "off", especially compared to the other support guns.

For example, numerous times with the MEC gun I would be completely missing targets at short range with short bursts, but these are targets that I usually take out without an issue. At first I thought it was just me that night, so I picked up a SAW to try out and 3 bursts = 3 kills. I started using that for the rest of the game and it felt "normal".

I'm sure there were no overt changes made to the MEC gun, but would it be possible to verify that everything is as it should be with that weapon? I could probably chalk it up to it being just me that night, even though I'm very familiar with the support guns overall, but Dustermahn also noticed the same issue.

**DrunkenSoul** · 07-26-2006, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by jaymind

One of the issues I ran across from last Sunday was in using the MEC Support weapon. I and Dustermahn both noticed that the accuracy of the weapon seems "off", especially compared to the other support guns.

For example, numerous times with the MEC gun I would be completely missing targets at short range with short bursts, but these are targets that I usually take out without an issue. At first I thought it was just me that night, so I picked up a SAW to try out and 3 bursts = 3 kills. I started using that for the rest of the game and it felt "normal".

I'm sure there were no overt changes made to the MEC gun, but would it be possible to verify that everything is as it should be with that weapon? I could probably chalk it up to it being just me that night, even though I'm very familiar with the support guns overall, but Dustermahn also noticed the same issue.

Thats wierd, i was playing USMC support most of the night and I felt the exact opposite way. I was gonna post about it but i guess i must be wrong if someone feels the other way about it

**JMJ** · 07-27-2006, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by asch

The difference between the OpFor sniper rifles in Tac mod and vanilla is the fire rate. Everything else should be the same. And that fire rate is 60 shots per minute. When we researched the weapon, it fires at 30 shots per minute.

60 shots per minute is really generous. In real life, you have to compensate for recoil and get back on target. The SVD round is virtually equal with the M24's round (so damage should be very similar, but I don't think it is).

**SgtDuke** · 07-27-2006, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by JMJ

The SVD round is virtually equal with the M24's round (so damage should be very similar, but I don't think it is).

It's pretty close. Two hits to the chest by an M24 round will take a player down while two SVD rounds will drop a player down to about 2 bars of health.

**Santa** · 07-27-2006, 11:48 PM

Lets look at the way vanilla does sniper rifles, and recognize what each sniper rifles strengths and weaknesses are comparitivly.

M24- Very slow to shoot, but very powerful and accurate.

SVD- moderatly fast to shoot, moderate power and accuracy

type 88- very fast to shoot, weak and only accurate at short ranges

So as you can clearly see, the biggest advantage the opfor sniper rifles have are their very fast firing rates. In tacmod, all the sniper rifles fire at approximately the same rate (not enough of a difference to matter), so that means that the M24 is MUCH better than the opfor sniper rifles because the opfor sniper rifles no longer have any advantages. The M24 has HUGE advantages in the accuracy and power department, which are the only things you can really gauge in tacmod because the firing rates are about equal now.

My suggestions for how tacmod should change sniper rifles from vanilla are this. Leave the M24 alone, leave the SVD alone, give the type 88 a slightly bigger zoom, and dont mess with any of the firing rates. Damages can stay the same as they are currently in tacmod. I feel the damage has been tweaked nicely.