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Discussion: Battlefield 2 Tactical Mod / Battlefield 2 Tactical Mod - General Discussion - Dynamic team balancing in Tactical Mod - Asch and I are currently brainstorming ideas that will allow us to "balance" the teams
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    Dynamic team balancing in Tactical Mod

    Asch and I are currently brainstorming ideas that will allow us to "balance" the teams throughout a round (without switching any players) and would like to know what you think about our current idea.

    The goal of this process is to produce a balancing system that will cause most rounds to be competitive and close, even if one team is "stacked" a bit, and make rounds where one team completely dominates the other very rare. From my own experience, I've found the most rewarding and satisfying rounds to be those where the teams have an intense tug-of-war throughout the round and it comes down to the very end before a victor is declared. Rounds of the opposite nature, where one team is not able to put up a challenge, for whatever reason, seem to end with frustration for the defeated and are forgetful for the winners. If we are successful in this idea, then we will be able to shape each round so that the vast majority are always challenging and memorable.

    Our current idea is to adjust player respawn time based on how well their team is doing. A player on the leading team would have a respawn time higher than normal while a player on the trailing team would have a respawn time lower than normal. The "leading" team would be determined by a combination of flag ownership and total ticket differences. The difference in respawn times (higher or lower) would be relative to the amount that a team is leading or trailing by. Hopefully this difference in respawn times between the leading and trailing teams would allow the trailing team to have more success in gaining a foothold on the map and becoming competitive on tickets. In theory, this idea would cause most of the round to be fairly close, and the "balancing" would only be felt when there was a significant difference in the success of the two teams.

    This idea would obviously be welcomed by players on the trailing team, since it will give them a better chance to be competitive in the round, but it would possibly request the personal sacrifice of players on the leading team. If you were playing on the leading team, would this sacrifice be acceptable to you, for the overall benefit and enjoyment of the entire community? And what do you think about this idea in general?

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    DrunkenSoul's Avatar

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    Re: Dynamic team balancing in Tactical Mod

    i think essentially, this will neutralize the spawn timer (because usually the team with less tickets has more deaths). I am not sure how I feel on this subject, I am for helping out the attacking team, but on head to head maps it kind of defeats the purpose of holding 50%+1 flags. I wouldnt mind seeing this implemented, but if something else could come up I think it would be better.
    Last edited by DrunkenSoul; 03-07-2006 at 03:52 PM.

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    Re: Dynamic team balancing in Tactical Mod

    I have never, in any game, liked artificial balancing. I would not like it in BF2 either. If one team has better players who are playing with better teamwork, then they should win every time.
    Peace through fear... since 1947!

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    Re: Dynamic team balancing in Tactical Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by icky
    If one team has better players who are playing with better teamwork, then they should win every time.
    I agree. I believe with this balancing system the team with better players and teamwork will continue to win, but the other team will have an opportunity to present a respectable challenge.

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    Re: Dynamic team balancing in Tactical Mod

    All I know is that I don't want to be swicthed from the winning team to the losing team by the server. Maybe you could let the player choose which team they go on when the get into the game, but don't let them see who is winning or losing, then lock it to that, so the losing team can't just flock to the other team. Just an idea.
    |TG| Lorian
    Member since 18th February 2006


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    Re: Dynamic team balancing in Tactical Mod

    I like this idea as every time I've played tac mod the ONLY games I disliked are the "blow-out" games whether I was on the winning or losing side those aren't much fun.

    As to Icky's point the superior team will likely win regardless, but what is happening on these maps is that the Tac Mod penalizes pretty signficantly a team that dies more. This means a team that is say 10% better coordinated/skilled (assume 10% fewer deaths) at the start will have their effectiveness compounded throughout the match as their death penalties rise at a far slower pace then the other team. By the end of the round you can have such a wide spread that the game becomes a blow-out (boring for the winners and frustrating for the losers).

    Instead a system that would allow the 10% better team to remain just 10% better (ala bf2 vanilla) would result in a probable victory for the better team, BUT it will take a solid effort for the extent of the map to ensure they win. Conversly, the team that is 10% worse will be "in" the match to the bitter end and has an oppurtunity to get motivated and coordinated enough to win.

    I like having the "boost" indexed against CP's held. For example, as long as wake is being held by all the defenders there should be NO penalty for an assaulter; However, once the attackers get a foothold let them start accruing penalties. If they get knocked off.. back to no penalty. Meanwhile, the defenders still have the significant advantage of inflicting bleed on the tickets so their "death penalty" is balanced. If the defenders begin to lose CP's then their death penalty goes down or away.


    As to your question of fairness I would GLADLY trade my "wins by wide margin" to keep from having the frusting "loss by total defeat" games. Any game were both teams end within 50 tickets is such a thrill I don't mind losing and generally my squad doesn't either.
    |TG-12th| SHINER


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    Re: Dynamic team balancing in Tactical Mod

    Any more thoughts on this idea before we make a decision?

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    Re: Dynamic team balancing in Tactical Mod

    I'm with Icky. Let it be. If it continues to be a problem round after round then people need to start switching sides.

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    Re: Dynamic team balancing in Tactical Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiner
    I like having the "boost" indexed against CP's held. For example, as long as wake is being held by all the defenders there should be NO penalty for an assaulter; However, once the attackers get a foothold let them start accruing penalties. If they get knocked off.. back to no penalty. Meanwhile, the defenders still have the significant advantage of inflicting bleed on the tickets so their "death penalty" is balanced. If the defenders begin to lose CP's then their death penalty goes down or away.
    If anything should be implemented I would go along with shiner's idea.

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    Re: Dynamic team balancing in Tactical Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiner
    As to Icky's point the superior team will likely win regardless, but what is happening on these maps is that the Tac Mod penalizes pretty signficantly a team that dies more.
    Note that I also totally disagree with the increasing spawn times. It does nothing for the game, in my opinion.
    Peace through fear... since 1947!

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    Re: Dynamic team balancing in Tactical Mod

    An "artificial" [un]balancing mechanism is already in place: the spawn-delay-penalty itself. The loosing team is penalized for loosing - this causes them loose even more, and the cycle continues...


    I say we either loose the death-penalty all together, or if it's kept, have it be dynamically adjusted to not penalize the loosing team. (I actually favor the latter.)

    |TG-12th|WhiskeySix

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    Re: Dynamic team balancing in Tactical Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by icky
    I also totally disagree with the increasing spawn times. It does nothing for the game, in my opinion.
    I agree

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    Re: Dynamic team balancing in Tactical Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by icky
    Note that I also totally disagree with the increasing spawn times. It does nothing for the game, in my opinion.

    I can agree with you on that. I personally don't see the need for the increasing spawn delay anymore. I think it helped the first games in .4 to really re-inforce the need to slow down, but not sure it has anymore influence on my learning process in that regard for .8.
    |TG-12th| SHINER


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    Re: Dynamic team balancing in Tactical Mod

    I dont like this idea for the sentiments that Icky stated, but i have an idea of my own.

    In any game (especcialy tac mod) and in real war, the defending team has an advantage, while the attacking team is screwed, at least in the beginning. The attacking team's difficulties at the beginning become compounded as the game progresses, and makes it even harder on them. In a real war, a 3:1 advantage for the attackers is basically mandatory. In tac mod, this would be a bit much, but if we could make it so the attacking team has a 3:2, 4:3, or 5:4 advantage, that may make it fairer. Of course, you can still have 64 players, there will just be more than 32 on the attacking force. The exact ratio that would be used would require testing, and a lot of it. If this is used, i think wed have to somehow convey, either through the map load up or elsewhere, what ratio of men the attacking force has compared to the enemy.

    I also think this is a bit more realistic. This would force the defending team to dig in, and the attackers to focus on attacking. The defenders would then NOT be able to advance because of their lack of numbers, and would fall back to secondary positions and let the attackers attack again. Tell me if im incorrect, but generally when an army is defending a city, valley, or what have you, the defending team falls back to secondary and tertiary defensive positions when they are overrun in order to conserve men because they dont have the same amount compare to their foes. Of course a counter attack is possible to regain a favorable defensive position, but its risky.

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    Re: Dynamic team balancing in Tactical Mod

    Im definately with Santa on this one. Im diggin that idea, if a proper and fair ratio can be found. Can that even be implemented? So instead of just making the teams even, it would make it so the attackers always had more ppl than the defenders. That sounds awesome, if Duke can work his almighty magic and figure out how to get that to work and balance it. Damn, Duke needs more reppage



    Quote Originally Posted by Fehmart View Post
    well, like I tell my squads sometimes, some rounds are just "grab your ankles".

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