"providing a spawnpoint"

**Apophis** · 09-12-2005 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by powersmoker

Yes I know, but I'm just being realistic.

If you play with the same squad everytime and your members are highly disciplined it becomes another story.

Im talking about the more or less randomly formed squads that form the majority of squads on tacticalgamer. Those squadleaders should join the attack.

I can't comment on that. I tend to play with squads of TG regulars. Not necessarily only those in the 42nd, but TG members in general that I have played with before and can trust to communicate and work as a cohesive unit.

In the evenings, the majority of squads should have a strong TG following and you should still have the same level of squad cohesion.

In any case, any of my recommendations go to further the purpose and philosophy behind Tactical Gamer. We are here to further our team oriented tactical play as opposed to traditional public play.

**DigitalAssassin** · 09-12-2005 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by powersmoker

Yes I know, but I'm just being realistic.

If you play with the same squad everytime and your members are highly disciplined it becomes another story.

Im talking about the more or less randomly formed squads that form the majority of squads on tacticalgamer. Those squadleaders should join the attack.

I think this is a generalization and your definition of realistic is subjective. Realistic on a public server and realistic on a TG server can be two totally different things.

I've had plenty of good rounds where the majority of my squad is NOT 7th members and our squad has done well with me playing conservative during offensive objectives.

**Ol'Smoke** · 09-12-2005 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by Tempus

I prefer my SL stay alive, thank you.

Me too that's why he should be surrounded by his unit.
Besides, hiding isn't nearly as effective for survival as it used to be, because of the UAV.

**Ol'Smoke** · 09-12-2005 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by DigitalAssassin

I've had plenty of good rounds where the majority of my squad is NOT 7th members and our squad has done well with me playing conservative during offensive objectives.

Im not saying you can't do well, Im saying you could do better.

**Turbo** · 09-12-2005 05:02 PM

I think it has more to do with who is in your squad. When I am squad leader I usually end up with a few familiar names and some 7th guys so if I feel comfortable being a spawn point. If you squad works well together then the squad leader does not have to be the point man and can provide a good spawn point. Also if your waves keep on failing move to a new location and start attacking from another angle. My squad did this last night, wave and wave was getting repelled so instead of coming from the west I made my way around to the east. I probably should of moved earlier but we still achieved our objective and the squad work together and they would also wait till someone else spawned to move in.

**DigitalAssassin** · 09-12-2005 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by powersmoker

Im not saying you can't do well, Im saying you could do better.

I think that making a generalization like that, without deference to the specific situation, is incorrect. I'm not saying an SL should ALWAYS hang back, that's just not correct. Your comment is in that same vein. A hard and fast rule is one that will get broken frequently.

**Ol'Smoke** · 09-12-2005 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by DigitalAssassin

I think that making a generalization like that, without deference to the specific situation, is incorrect. I'm not saying an SL should ALWAYS hang back, that's just not correct. Your comment is in that same vein. A hard and fast rule is one that will get broken frequently.

Im not sure you understand my point. Im saying that allthough you might think you're approach is pretty good, when you try both tactics you can better judge what is the most effective one.

**Santa** · 09-12-2005 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by Apophis

I think this game is just too dynamic to have any single set way of doing it. Sometimes going in with the team makes sense, sometimes staying back and providing a spawn point makes sense. It all changes based on the level of enemy resistance, available assets, equipment, terrain, and importance of the objective.

To label any one method as "THE" way to do it would be an injustice.

I agree completly. Some situations call for the SL to hang back a bit, such as when your attacking a base with many defenders, or being attacked by many attackers. However other situations call for the squad leader to be near the front of the attack, and its just a judgement call at the moment. In these situations its still important to be in a position where either you probably wont take much harm to yourself, or where a medic could easily revive you.

**Ol'Smoke** · 09-12-2005 06:10 PM

I agree a SL should try to stay alive, but I'm trying to bring the balance more in favour of the going in with the group tactic. Right now it's 20-80, I want it 80-20, if you know what I mean.

Example: Let's say you're attacking the Tv-tower in Sharqui. You're closest base is the construction site. The SL could hide between the two bases. In my opinion that is not effective. IMO the SL should hide in the stairway somewhat above the flag. In this attack it's 90% going with the group, and 10% providing a spawnpoint.

Let me summerize pro's and con's of going in with the group:

Pros
-Better group cohesian: faster flag capture, more firepower, more teamplay.
-SL protected by his squad.
-Attack over shorter timespan, giving opponents less chance to respawn.
-One more player (SL) involved in the attack.
-Element of surprise.
Cons
-SL likely to encounter more resistance.

**DigitalAssassin** · 09-12-2005 06:49 PM

Paging an admin...can we get this thread closed? We all have our opinions on this, no need to keep tossing them back and forth. Thanks.

**Ol'Smoke** · 09-12-2005 09:56 PM

I agree it's looking like that, let's react to each other a bit more. Everybody seems to react to the first post, making it more of a poll...
No need to close the topic though is there?

I just want to have a nice discussion.

**Beatnik** · 09-12-2005 10:17 PM

Just to chip in my .02 before thread closure...

It's (IMO) entirely dependent on the situation (kind of like the management style called Situational Leadership). If you're not responsive to the situation (i.e. # of defenders, organization of defenders, quality/attentiveness of your medic, quality/cohesion of your squad, UAV availability, whether an arty strike just came in, etc. etc.), you're going to make big mistakes. I say this as an admitted over-charger. I play assault and have a bad BF1942/DC habit of charging in guns a blazin. However, when I die and my squad has to make another trek to the same CP, it sucks for everyone, it damages our effectiveness, and we lose the element of surprise. Especially after a flag is turned white, you staying alive to provide a local spawn (assuming you've taken out their SL) provides HUGE force superiority over the defending squad.

But again, it all depends on the situation. It's just been my experience that I need to hang back more rather than less.

**Wye** · 09-13-2005 12:16 AM

Squad leaders should "lead from the rear" and have their designated pointman lead the way. Its really not hard if you have a headset. If Soandso is the guy closest to the enemy, just say "Soandso is point, follow him. We'll be (tactical plan here)" Mark the attack point and go for it.

When you make contact with the enemy you have to do what you feel is best, of course. If your gut tells you that the enemy can be wiped out with a whole squad assault then do it. If it'll take more than one wave of attacks, then stay somewhere safe. (Which may not be in the back)

You do have to think about your safety more than normal as a squad leader because if everyone dies you're back to page 1. Do try to think about your squad's safety as well.

I loathe getting killed repeatedly when spawning on a squad leader in a bad spot.

Using pointmen also helps fellow players who are not ready to be squad leaders develop experience with combat leadership. They don't have to plan attacks and communicate with comand, just execute.

**Santa** · 09-13-2005 12:25 AM

Originally Posted by Wye

Do try to think about your squad's safety as well.

I loathe getting killed repeatedly when spawning on a squad leader in a bad spot.

Amen to that. Its so frustrating to spawn on the squad leader only to be killed instantly. Just because a SL is alive doesnt neccesarily mean you can spawn.

**Pickle** · 09-13-2005 12:34 AM

I really like the idea of using kits to identify players instead of their names. I think that just simplifies everything. I mean, it is nice when the SL gives a direct order to me by screename but I know that I can barely remember the names of the people on my squad much less give them direction by name.

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