umbra

No, I'm not the pro. But go buy or check out a book called "Shooter" by Caughlin, written this year. He's a Marine sniper and considered one of the best. And as you read his comments on the role of the sniper, I think you can connect his thoughts on the "old" role of the sniper and the "new" role with how to play it in BF2.

First - he fought hard to convince the Marines and the American military that the traditional role of a sniper moving inch by inch, hiding for days to get a single shot of opportunity doesn't work in today's modern, highly mobile battlefields. No finding the perfect hiding spot and sitting and waiting to see if someone comes across your sites, even if you have selected a really good position. His concept was a highly mobile sniper team that moved fast and moved with the front line guys.

So secondly, the tactics he developed and used in Somalia and the Middle East was to get a sniper team equipped with fast transport, move quickly up to where the fighting was going on, move into position WITH the front line troops, and take out the highest threats or bottlenecks. So he would go with his team in a Hummer in Iraq and quickly reach a position where the Marines were under attack, figure out who was the target that would most effectively destroy the enemy's ability to prosecute the battle, and quickly take them out, whether it was commanders or a machine gun team. As soon as the highly mobile sniper team did their business, they were back in the Hummer and quickly moving to the next front line spots.

Translated to BF2: effective sniper teams that quickly move to the highest priority positions and quickly take out that support gun, that obvious squad leader, break open a bottleneck keeping a squad from taking a flag. Some rare sniper teams do that, but it is completely in contrast with what the standard sniper does in BF2 today. I'd love to see a team on a 32 or larger map effectively employ 2 or 3 sniper squads with fast mobility rapidly reaching the hottest battle spots, wreaking havoc, then quickly moving in a jeep, etc. to the next spot (rather than lying in wait.)

That's a weak explanation of Caughlin's new battlefield sniper tactics - get the book and even if you never play sniper you may find yourself wanting to try it out after reading his experiences. Of course he had one advantage over most Bf2 snipers: he never needed two shots to take out his target.

FWIW

freekyE

i like the sound of this ...

ive never been abject to having a sniper IN my squad to use some of these same tactics

umbra

The other rule he broke as he went through the recent Iraq invasion is that he didn't spend a lot of time trying to hide - he was there with the other Marines and sometimes in pretty plain sight, just taking advantage of his superior scoping/sighting abilities and ability to find and take out selected targets more surgically/effectively than a standard infantry soldier. I could see a snipe with a squad in BF2 moving with the squad and at strategic points looking through the scope to see if any bad guys were hiding on a roof or behind a bush or through the windows, then taking them out before the main attack. Or causing some general havoc of that type.

I experimented with it tonight with a US squad, the squad leader and I discussed what we'd try, and it worked pretty well for a first try. It would have worked really well if I was a better shot! LOL! But when I did get the head shot/one shot kills at the orders of/in accord with the squad leaders' plans/orders, it was surprisingly effective. And I even broke some of the rules and at times went in pretty close with the squad capping flags, where one shot kills were pretty easy. It surprised some opposing squads when they realized that a sniper was in the squad mix, and the squad was good enough that the defending (or atttacking) squad couldn't afford to simply focus on me, the sniper, or the rest of my squad would take advanatage and wipe them out.

I'm not ready to give up my Spec Ops kit, which I've spent most of my BF2 time playing, but I bet some good snipers integrated into some fast moving and well coordinated squads could be interesting.

Kilrogg

the problem with that is you need 2-3 snipers to be effective and good communication so you shoot the same target, which is hard. Most people can get cover before you can fire the 2nd shot and headshots are hard to get on moving targets in this game, even on stationary targets since the hitboxes are crap.

Mateo

This really requires a 5 man team: 3 snipers, medic, and support/AT, and all have to be on Teamspeak to make it work.

TG_Bubba

I agree with Mateo. We did this one night and it worked out great. The medic did a great job keeping us healed and support kept the ammo up. The only thing we did not due was use T/S. The CO had no problem with it as he used us for what we were for.

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Preston85

A 5 man sniper squad is a waste, 2 snipers is all that is needed. Double teaming targets if the head shot it missed. I try to assign sniper squads to work with the main assault squads, "Squad 2 provide sniper support for squad 1 until further notace, I will assign the same orders to both squads so the target is clear." This is much better than putting them on a hill hitting a base that isn't even being assaulted, its ok to distract them for a while but eventually they will just arty you, ignore you by staying inside/behind cover.

As far as using the M24 within a squad moving side by side with squadmates it can work on some maps but that position could be better used, the good scope and accuracy is wasted up close. I would rather have the sniper in a seperate squad with another sniper and support the assault squad that way.

The MEC/Chinese sniper is much better for this situation, the rapid fire and weaker zoom makes its more effective in close range. Having them away from the squad with the weak accuracy and scope is a waste, the rapid fire snipers should be used like an assault rifle. I would have no problem having a MEC/Chinese sniper in my squad on certain maps (low armour/good sight line maps) In fact I think the SLer would make a good sniper, he can stay to the rear supporting his squad while his squad mates move infront drawing the attention. (Unless the SL is hiding in a base acting as a spawn point).

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Santa

you never need more than 2 snipers in a squad. 2 shots, no matter where they hit, will kill. Why waste another man as a sniper?

Also, seeing in how the sniper rifles in this game arent nearly as effective compared to other games, its very rare for a sniper squad to effectivly help a friendly squad to take a flag. Ive had sniper squads attempt to help my squad out (which is rare enough) in taking a flag, and after a 5 minute battle i saw ONE guy get nailed by a sniper rifle.

The sniper squads that sit up on a hill and "suppress" a base that isnt being attacked are absolutly useless. Even if they get a kill, its very easy for a medic there to revive. Its also not accomplishing anything other then a waste of a few men on the battlefield.

Sniper squads should also be very quick. If the CO sees a flag is undefended, send the sniper squad to capture it before it becomes defended. Then just send a full squad over there to defend and your sweet. Very rarely though does a sniper squad not only try to capture an undefended flag, but they do it so slowly that defenders pop up before they get there.

Arf

I agree with Santa. I'm guilty of this too but snipers tend to be too gunshy. If there's only 2-3 people in the squad you're a utility squad and if you have snipers you're a utility squad with snipers. There is no reason you shouldn't be helping take a flag if you get the chance.

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Jusb

I try to remedy some of the problems mentioned above as a 2-3 man Sniper SL. We will often times "attach" ourselves to attacking squads (1 each) to act as a pointman.

I may not have VOIP w/ that particular attacking SL but I can often times eliminate a well placed and troublesome .50 Cal before the squad i'm assisting gets to that bottleneck. I can also spot out vehicles and enemies on a flag to give the attacking SL an idea what he is moving into. I can also pick off a known SL and his medic to facilitate a faster flag turn.

2-3 man sniper squads can be very useful in BF2 if you make a concerted effort to do some of the things umbra mentions as newer tactics.

Don't underestimate the power of 2 man sniper squads in slowing a non-vehicle ground moving attack squad at an ambush point. I've done this many times w/ many different quality snipers (Mantis, Phoenix, Gixxer) -- I've pinned down, slowed down and distracted many opposing SL's (Santa, JMJ, B, Bom etc etc) all by myself or with a tandem sniper. It can be very frustrating as i've been pinned down by the likes of Mantis and Arf when trying to move a squad on foot as SL from A to B.

The success of a sniper exclusive squad depends entirely on the quality of the shooters that make up the squad and how they are deployed by a CO.

CO's who utilizes snipers as a fast deployment squad to lightly defended flags is better utilizing a sniper squad in flag capture. But as always there are CO's who send 3 snipers to take a 6 man squad at a point or to have a 3 man sniper squad as the lone defense of a point.

3 man sniper squads should be seen as an attachment. Think of it as having 3 pawns to move across a chessboard. You can move all three together to support your other pieces or you can break them up and assign them accordingly.

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Long Live the 2nd BCT and 1st MIP

Jusb

Santa, B and JMJ use me as an in unit sniper all the time. We've developed a pretty good relationship of how to utilize me best to suit their squads w/ an in unit sniper.

I'm sure they could shed some light on what a SL prefers an in unit sniper do.

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Long Live the 2nd BCT and 1st MIP

Santa

Tell me about it, jerk. Ive lost count of the number of times ive had to say "Aw crap Jusb is in that squad. Somebody freakin spot him". I then have to hide myself extra well, which is something i hate doing.

As for snipers in my squad, im fine with it. I generally only want one though, so that we'll still have 5 guys with automatics up close. A sniper in a full squad is best used on offense to take out rough areas such as .50 cals or rooftops from a distance. Once those are clear he can just be used as overwatch. On defense, hes again best used to take out .50 cals and to spot anything coming in from his high up vantage point. Some flag zones are also pretty open, and from a good position a good sniper can keep the flag area clear very effectivly. Its almost like having C4 on the flag if the sniper is good enough. Ive also seen some snipers pin a squad down, which makes it easy for the rest of the squad to move in and flush them out.

IRS_Agent

I liek the idea of a squad sniper but not a whole squad based on them, a squad like that can be easily wiped out by a more diverse squad.

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The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can. Strike him as hard as you can, and keep moving.



I
#83 of 213 things you cannot do in the army.
83. Must not start any SITREP (Situation Report) with "I recently had an experience I just had to write you about...."