Rasta-GR

Hi, Pokerface, you are spot on.

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Tarenth

Agreed. If you refuse to read the text or at least scan for the rare typed message then it is just about the same as refusing to use VOIP.

My mic probably goes through at around 2x1 and has the bad tendency to cut off mid message. I should get a new mic, but I have to deal with other issues first. That being said, I type VERY fast and given 5 seconds I can issue orders and notices and typed commands as fast as some people stumble though VOIP. That won't help me if I suddenly...say...hit the back of a squadmate's head with a grenade and it drops in the middle of the pack. I know I won't have comms to scream "Crap! Bad nade! Scatter!", but that's just something I'll have to be extra carful about (and apologies for the last...3...times that happened). But for nonemergency orders and contact reports its easy enough using simple chat text or the comm rose.

CO: Pushing to 3
SQUAD: Tank inc
SQUAD: Contact 6 NE building
CO: FAV through lines
SQUAD: Rockets NE 40 yards
SQUAD: Sniper top monorail
CO: Transport to 4 inbound
CO: Gunship eastbound pass 4
SQUAD: Push to 3, hang left
SQUAD: Fall to 2, use rail for AV
CO: Need Supply
CO: Orders?
S3: Contact rear
S2: Push left to 4

Then again, maybe 3/4 of those comms are given with Q spotting and Command rose orders and requests.

That's an unrelated gripe I have with some SLs the few times I was CO. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE use the command rose for requests instead of calling for it over VOIP. If you don't want to use the command rose then spend 10 seconds with the command map and place your request that way. Calling for it over VOIP means the CO has to zoom in and place it with precision or make a 'best guess' on the over map. If you use a request its like popping smoke with GPS coordinates to the second that I can drop resources within the inch. Just scope in and aim at where you want something dropped and place the order marker that way.

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My sanity is not in question...
It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.

Ainselie

This issue is dead since a game officer has commented, but for the interests of healthy debate I will respond to some of the comments made:

1. As I mentioned before, the game makes the text fly by at such a rate that even if you are paying attention very closely you can not catch the entire message. As soon as you type something in chat, a team mate can use 2 cammo rose messages and your message is displaced from the screen.

2. Chat messages transfered to the console are illegible because of poor rendering of the console text.

3. Intel and orders reported 20 seconds ago have a high probability of being stale which makes the value of messages in chat worthless. Respawn times are less then 15 seconds, the time to neutralize a flag with a squad of 4 takes 10 seconds, the time for a squad to move from silo to silo or flag to flag less then 15 seconds. If you were to type at an average rate of 40 words per minute (WPM), then if you type 6 words you used about 10 seconds. And your intel is now stale. Not only is it stale, but people are unable to read it because a cammo rose message has displaced it.

I have tried other games such as PR and COD4, and text chat is more feasible because chat messages stick and are legible. However with 2142 it is simply not possible and is a severe limitation of the game engine and style of the game.

I just did in my previous post to this thread, and my statement was stronger then simply 'better', I argued that they cannot lead at all - and it was in bold: "A squad leader who does not have a microphone is in no capacity to lead"

If you were to ask people what makes a good leader, you will undoubtedly get many responses of what people think what a good leader is like. One aspect leadership that is often cited is the "ability to achieve results and goals". If you have no effective means of communication, how is it possible to guide others to achieve these goals? A microphone enables communication and is the key ingredient that facilitates teamwork .

One of the definition of leadership according to Merriam Webster is in fact, "the capacity to lead."

As for the 'better leader' aspect though - If you see successful squad leaders on our server, **ALL** of them use microphones. In fact the squad leaders who are not using microphones have no sort of squad cohesion at all. All of the squad members are lone wolfing doing their own thing. Is this the kind of experience we want visitors to the TG server to have? Is this what converts people into paying supporting members?

I am not sure I am following your logic here.

The public server is not a clan environment; so this is an unfair comparison.


If not by voice then how? Hand motions maybe?


Poker be nice, it's rude to tell people to 'quiet down' :P But I will agree with you here. However, I would like to point out that I am only debating the fact that the requirement should be considered on SLs and not SM or COs

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MDFubar

I think that my point was mistaken by POkerface, but Ainselie hit it on the mark. In other games it is very feasible to use chat, I do not ignore the text and I may have mis-stated myself. 2142, in my opinion, is the fastest paced game that I have played and things are always changing...quickly. Our server holds 50 people? that's 25 per side and if only half of them communicate by chat at about the same time, say 15 people die in a couple of seconds, then that is 40 texts on the screen and I believe that it only holds 10. Many times you can't even tell who killed you or with what weapon.
I did not discount the other avenues of communication, simply stating that there are not as effective. People play here because we have a great reputaion of, amongst other things, teaching people and showing them better ways to do things. Verbal communication in this game is a better way.
Just a healthy debate.

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Ainselie

Well said! that's what makes chatting so unbearable.

I forgot to mention the reason why I feel strongly about VOIP with SLs and not COs is that CO chat messages stick and are on another line -- and this is why they stick. Not only that they are in a different color

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Rasta-GR

Ainselie and MDFubar have a good point here, regarding the text use in BF2142. Yes, you cannot follow the fast scrolling text. I did not realized that until now

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Pokerface

While I am *A* game officer, I'm not *THE* game officer. My words carry the weight of experience, not law.

I understood that your statement was stronger than "better". I also believe it was wrong.

"Effective" is a matter of degrees, and at times has less to do with the leader and more to do with the team. If a squad is unwilling or unable to process text, that is not a failing of the leader. Leadership isn't achieving goals: it's getting OTHERS to work to achieve goals. If those others are figuratively deaf to one form of communication...

If an SL isn't leading, then the SL should go. If the SL is leading and the squad isn't listening, the squad should go.

What I am saying is that we should not enforce the best method as the only method. We can assert VOIP's greatness all day and drown our sorrows in the difficulty of text chat over a pint of Guinness later that night, if you want. However, I steadfastly refuse to endorse the use of voice as a requirement to squad-leading, commanding, or any other task, in this game or any other here at Tactical Gamer.

It was not a comparison so much as another take on the matter. I was attempting to point out that effective communication can take many forms.

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Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
<anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
<LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash
Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

MDFubar

Pokerface, PLease do not take this the wrong way. Do you play 2142? If not, please take some time to play and make an assessment based on your experience in the particular game we are referring to. An assessment based on BF2 is not quite the same, although the games are simular..2142 moves much faster and the rate at which the text moves is the problem for effective communication.
Otherwise, thanks for your input on this issue as it has brought some good points to light.

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Tempus

Oh, I remember this discussion way back in the day when BF2 first started here. Should everyone be forced to use VoIP (keep in mind that it IS a requirement that you can hear VoIP), should everyone be forced to read the text chat, etc.

The decision then was that using voice was not a requirement. Reading chat, while encouraged, was not required, as it was wholly impractical to expect people to keep track of scrolling text in such a fast paced environment.

As mentioned, SLs and COs who use voice are definitely preferred, but if they are otherwise doing their job, then they were not in violation of any rules. Of course, players may decide not to remain in a squad where the SL is not speaking.

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Battlefield 2/2142 Game Officer
Contact me with server/player/admin issues.




-- Suits are what you wear when doing things you shouldn’t want to do anyway.

FROM THE TACTICAL GAMER PRIMER.
3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

Tarenth

It doesn't scroll that fast and you can always bring up the console with the ~ key. All important messages from your team are usually prefaced with <SQUAD> or <COMMANDER> since you lose the color. Also, text chat is kept on a seperate line section right below kills and won't scroll off unless you have commo rose chatter and that isn't transfered to the console.

Maybe I'm just some sort of mutant or something. Whenever I see green (or the rarer yellow for the CO) text out of the corner of my eye I glance up there to take a look and spend the quarter of a second reading it. Its handy to know what is where spotted by who or who is requesting what. Besides, I've been with SLers and COs who have mics that come in 1x1 for me and I'm unsure where things are not connecting. It seems like half of the squad can hear them, and the other half of us are saying "Um...say again? Better yet, type it because I can't hear what the hell you're saying".

I can use VOIP...its just that my mic won't pick up much and you'll hear a loud screach in the back. But hey! I have self mic muted so if you want to suffer that instead of scanning for text chat I can give it a shot and put both SMs or SLs in a perpetual state of "Huh? Say that again?"

__________________
My sanity is not in question...
It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.

MDFubar

Forgot all about the ~ key!! Thanx Tarenth. When you do spot, it shows up on your mini-map.

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C.T_Emrie

When I first started playing BF2142 I had no mic, as my wonderful cat had chewed the cord in two. Now while a mic is not to expensive I did not feel it would enhance my play. Since then I have come to realize that a mic can make a big difference. As my typing skills are pretty miserable, giving specific directions or warnings in chat were next to impossable. Not to mention that half the time the message was scrolled off the screen so fast even I did not see it.

I have since purchased a mic/headphone set and now try to communicate to my squad or commander by voip. Even so, I am not always talking. Many times I use the map commands to give attack or defend orders to my squad. I do this to rack up the squad leader points for succesful actions by my squad. I would say that dirung a round I talk to my squad about 10 to 15% of the time. Most of that is giving quick commands to my squad or asking my commander a question. I tend to use the commo rose to ask for assets because it makes it so much easier for the commander to respond as he will know for sure who asked or where the asset needs to go.

While the mic makes is so much more convienent to give and recieve orders I have had commanders and Squad leaders that never spoke but were able to lead us to victory by just using the map commands. So while I agree that a mic will improve the quality of game play it is not an necessity or a requirement.

Pokerface

No offense taken. I have not played 2142, though I've played BF2 and its variants. Truly, I understand that the amount of text going across the screen can be totally nutty at times, and I'm all for the creation of social pressure to get people to use VOIP effectively instead.

But so long as the goal is communication, while we can advocate a best path, we can't (or shouldn't at least) legislate it.

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NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
<anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
<LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash
Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

Lyramion

Will Noone Think Of The Deaf Players??

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MDFubar

Scroll up Lyra, Ratsa had already mentioned them.

Agreed P