Requirement for SL and CO to use VOIP

**RedHerring** · 12-14-2007, 07:32 PM

Has anyone ever thought to make it a requirement on the servers to have the SL and CO use there VOIP mic. The current BF2142 rules states the following:

5) Audio is required.
Every individual must have the capability to hear the voicecomms of other members of his team. While the use of mics is strongly encouraged, the requirement is that you have VoIP enabled and can hear your teammates. If you are unable to hear, please contact an admin and inform him of your situation.

I have had many games in BF2142 with squad leaders and/or commanders that just will not talk. Although the games can be fun I believe the teamplay is severely lacking.

Personnaly, I do not believe people should be going for those positions if they do not plan to communicate over VOIP and I Just wanted to see what other peoples thoughts were.

**Eroak** · 12-14-2007, 08:04 PM

It is good in theroy, but that would make a few problems. 1st it would shy away good people/players who have a busted mic or no cash for a mic. Yes they don't have to CO or SL, But I rather have a good player there then a pubbie that doesn't know what hes doing and chooses not to say anything like most. Having a good SL would require more VOIP then the CO because of the micro-managing involved. But I haven't really run into the issue of SL's not using VOIP. And if they don't, they usally don't lead the squad anyways which is a kickable offense.

2nd reason, administration of it would be difficult. Admins using the console wouldn't be able to tell if it's someone who has a broken mic, which isn't fair, or someone whos shy to someone who jsut doesn't care to use it.

All that is required is to hear because you can't recive orders without hear anyone. And who here has played 2142 without speaks on a regular basis?

Thanks for the idea, but it's not going to be able to go far.

**DaddyOfThree** · 12-14-2007, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHerring

Has anyone ever thought to make it a requirement on the servers to have the SL and CO use there VOIP mic.
...
Personnaly, I do not believe people should be going for those positions if they do not plan to communicate over VOIP and I Just wanted to see what other peoples thoughts were.

I would definitely agree with you RedHerring. We actually had a game this afternoon where someone (in global chat) requested that the commander step aside (before the game started) so that someone with a MIC could command. Unfortunately that person didn't oblige.

I'm not sure it needs to be a "rule" but on the other hand just because enforcement would be difficult doesn't mean it shouldn't be a rule. Bunny hopping is not allowed and enforcement of that rule could be described as being just as difficult if not more difficult.

**machowner** · 12-14-2007, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eroak

And if they don't, they usally don't lead the squad anyways which is a kickable offense.

I think this would pretty much covers it guys. If their not talking, leave the squad and form your own or join another. If it is the CO, just report him for not doing his job. I've done it a number of times and the CO was kicked. It might be different now, as Eroak says, but I've been in a number of games where the CO didn't do his job but the admins were always willing to help. As long as you report what your seeing, it should only last a round.

**Lorax74** · 12-15-2007, 12:01 AM

Keep one thing in mind, not every squad leader without a mic is a bad squad leader. I'm sure there are folks out there that play in abyss and never felt the need to purchase a mic mic. When a round starts with a mic-less SL, give them the benefit of the doubt and see how they do. If they don't attempt to lead you in anyway report them. You could also leave the squad and start your own. But, if the person does attempt to lead either via chat or a combination of the commo and tactical rose, then suggest to them that they get a mic. Same goes for CO. You never know, you may be the one who converts the next pubbie into a true Tactical Gamer.

**Vortex421** · 12-15-2007, 03:19 AM

It's not as if a mic is expensive these days or something - I can buy one off the shelf at Wal-Mart for $15 or less.

I'll be honest, I grow weary of SLs who do not have mics. Games of this sort require a faster response time than typing up answers. Ever tried typing a warning to someone that an enemy is around the next corner? You'll know what I mean.

The role of a squad leader is to lead. Leading does not just mean slapping down a point and saying attack it or defend it on a map. Leading means that you communicate clearly and effectively with the rest of your squad as to your objectives, orders, and intent. That's what leadership is all about - it's communication.

So, while I understand that not everyone has a mic, and while I will gladly play with those who lack them, it is my strong belief and conviction that if you are going to lead, be it squad level or team level, a mic be in your possession. It's not expensive and it's not hard to do.

**Ainselie** · 12-15-2007, 04:31 AM

I strongly agree with the RedHerring and Vortex421.

I would like to make the following deductive arguement:

A squad leader who does not have a microphone is in no capacity to lead.

- Battlefield 2142's pace is too fast for a squad leader to type any reasonable message in chat. With respawn timers less then 15 seconds, a squad leader cannot control his squad member's spawn points. By the time he has conveyed a spawn location over chat, other squad members would most likely be spawned in.
- A squad leader cannot issue contact reports without a microphone.
- A squad leader cannot issue complex orders in a reasonable amount of time. I.E. instructing an engineer motion mining a particular area of the map.
- Chat messages are displaced from the screen quickly, and has a high probability of not being seen by squad members.

IF, a squad leader is unable to instruct his squad on where to spawn, when to spawn, issue contact reports, direct movement, direct kit load outs, or to convey other complex orders in a reasonable amount of time, he is not doing his job and not leading the squad.

IF, it is not possible to direct movement, issue contact reports, direct kit load outs, control spawn time and location in a reasonable amount of time without a microphone, he is unable to lead his squad.

THEREFORE Q.E.D., a squad leader without a microphone is in no capacity to lead.

If the admin team has already decided and enforcing the requirement that squad leaders must lead, and if it is not reasonably possible for squad leaders to lead without a mic, can't one by extension to include enforcement of squad leaders to have microphones? (That is if you buy the logic above)

**Ainselie** · 12-15-2007, 04:44 AM

This may be outdated and rules may not apply now, but here is a post referencing the issue. Can an admin give an official interpretation that is posted below?

On an aside if you are commander you can enforce VOIP requirement of SLs since you are issuing an order.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bommando

Dealing With Specific Occurrences:

Following Orders:

If you are a CO and you have SLs who are not following orders, these are the steps to take:

Check whether they have voice. If they don't, ask them by voice to respond using Page Up or Page Down to requests. Give them a couple of chances to do this. If they don't comply, tell them by voice that it is a server requirement that SLs follow CO orders or be kicked.
If you still get no response, report them to an admin and state clearly that you have made every effort to get them into line.
After the admin warns them, give the player 1 minute to acknowledge and if they don't follow it up immediately to ensure a kick. We need to get rid of unresponsive SLs as a priority, so it's up to you to make it work.

Squad Leader or Commander Duties:

SLs and COs are expected to lead. If you are presented with an unresponsive Squad Leader or Commander, make sure to report them. They should preferably have VOIP enabled and if they do not, you should ask them to step down to allow someone with voice to lead the squad.

COs should not be in any vehicle unless absolutely necessary. In most cases, they should not be engaging the enemy, but rather watching the overhead view and leading their team. If you notice a CO using an asset out of line, do the following:

If you are a SL, tell them by voice and type it in team chat. If you are a Squad Member, tell your SL to do so.
An admin will warn them.
Follow up within 1 minute if the CO is still ignoring their duties and they will be kicked.

SLs should be setting waypoints, preserving the spawn and leading their squad.

As a Squad Member, you should ask for orders by voice and also by using the 'T' commo rose to request them. You should explain that they should have VOIP enabled or step down to allow someone with VOIP to lead.
An admin will warn them.
Follow up within 1 minute if the SL is still ignoring their duties and they will be kicked.

Lone Wolves and Lack of Teamwork:

Lack of teamwork can take many forms, many of which are obvious, some of which are not. The main factor affecting a team's performance is Lone Wolfing. It is expected that when asked, small squads merge into larger ones.

The most important time for squads to consolidate is at the beginning of the round. Make sure you use the load time constructively by typing in team chat for all small squads to merge. Squad Leaders without full squads should invite players from smaller squads to join. This is very effective and most players will comply to a join request from a well-named squad led by a TG player. It is especially important for you to name your squad when starting to something like "TEAMWORK", "VOIP" or "TACTICAL". Since players see the squad name in their invite request, they are much more likely to join a named squad than one simply called "CHARLIE".

Type in team chat asking everyone to merge small squads. If enough people do this, people will get the message. SLs use the time to invite loose players into your squads.
Apply for the CO position and start asking squads to merge by voice. Do so politely and most people will comply. Report players who refuse or are unresponsive after 3 requests.
You don't need to be a SL or CO to report loose squads. Unless it is obvious the squad is a helo, jet, arty or other specialist squad, report the Squad Leader to an admin and they will take care of it.

**MDFubar** · 12-15-2007, 09:37 AM

Whether or not this is up for debate, I would have to agree with the fact that an SL without a mic is not able to effectively lead thier squad. I have had to step down simlpy because no one could undertsand my drunken slurring...........but I had a mic!

**Superfast** · 12-15-2007, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDFubar

Whether or not this is up for debate, I would have to agree with the fact that an SL without a mic is not able to effectively lead thier squad. I have had to step down simlpy because no one could undertsand my drunken slurring...........but I had a mic!

Yeah i have to agree. SL's should be sober and use VOIP if so.

**Rasta-GR** · 12-17-2007, 08:34 AM

Hello,

There are two factors here. Tactics and Reality.

SL's and CO's that use VOIP, they increase the reality factor.

In addition, VOIP comms gives you a tactical advandage over non-VOIP comms.

However, a good SL and CO, can be really tactical, by just using the keyboard commands to give orders and chat in text.

And what about hearing and speach impaired / disabled people ?

Why not give them a chance to enjoy this lovely game and community ?

Regards.

Azura · 12-17-2007, 05:30 PM

I really tend not to join a squad without a leader with Voip, but sometimes when I am in Azura-Casual mode I don't mind. Because it gives me a little more freedom, but I still stay with the SL.

I think if you told people you don't have a mic so you can't SL it'll hurt their feelings and make them resent TG. Because that SL who keeps playing without a mic and falls in love with the server might go out and by one and then become a Supporting Member.

I think I played the TG server for about 3 months and I think Heavy said when are you going to get a mic. Later that week I plugged it in and set up Voip.

**Ainselie** · 12-17-2007, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rasta-GR

However, a good SL and CO, can be really tactical, by just using the keyboard commands to give orders and chat in text.

As I attempted to outline before the pace of the game is too fast to convey tactics in a reasonable amount of time. The disadvantage and the hit to the quality of play is too severe when not playing with a microphone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rasta-GR

And what about hearing and speach impaired / disabled people ?

Why not give them a chance to enjoy this lovely game and community ?

I would concede that this is a good point, however, I beleive that this is a small minority and I am sure special arrangements can be made for these guys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azura

I think if you told people you don't have a mic so you can't SL it'll hurt their feelings and make them resent TG.

I think it would motivate the person to buy a microphone. A SL who is really interested in becoming a good SL and gain the respect of TGers would do this.

The supporting member argument

I became a supporting member because of people used VOIP on this server, and I am sure the rest of people here who played 2142 at TG would not have become supporting members if their experience was VOIP-less. If people did not talk on the server, our TG server would just be like any other server. The use of VOIP is a fundamental piece that facilitates strong teamwork and tactics. Additionally, one is being proposed here is the enforcement of VOIP not of all players, but only players who are playing a leadership role such as CO or SL.

I understand why the official position of the admin team is not to enforce the rule: one of those reasons being that it would 'scare away' people without a microphone. However, our server is consistently full during PM peak hours and weekends. Can't we consider partial enforcement during peak hours when our server is full? We have the ability to be selective during these times, and it would bring stronger quality players who appreciate teamplay and tactics.

**MDFubar** · 12-17-2007, 08:16 PM

I would say that in the event that there is no rule/enforcement requiring the use of VOIP for an SL or CO, that we could be courteous and explain the situation to the person that is making a reasonable effort.
What we will end up with is a squad of pubs with no communication and squads of others with grreat communication. Maybe even take the time to say "hey I will squad with you this round, then you let me be SL and notice the difference in communication".
No, not everyone has the time or patience for this, myself included sometimes. We stand out as a great community to game with now, anything that improves our image is great. Mishandling of an issue conerning the use of every tool the EA has given us to make the game more enjoyable would only negatively effect those who really don't care anyway. In my opinion.
The game designers gave us these tools, we should encourage the use of them. I personally don't have a problem with a SM that doesn't have a mic, but I can tell you that it does make a difference in squad performance.
I almost never look at the chat in game, I am too busy trying to position my squad, call out enemy positions, direct counter measure, watch my mini-map, communicate with the CO, and stay alive.
Just a rambling thought.

**Pokerface** · 12-18-2007, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDFubar

I almost never look at the chat in game, I am too busy trying to position my squad, call out enemy positions, direct counter measure, watch my mini-map, communicate with the CO, and stay alive.

This is a problem. The text is used for communication. It might not be the easiest method, but it's a method, and you (and everyone else) needs to be looking at the text as another stream of information. Just like disabling VOIP cuts off a vital channel, so too does ignoring text.

No one (I presume) will argue that a leader -- whatever the type, whatever the GAME even -- is on the whole a better leader if communication takes place over voice. It facilitates the flow of information faster than most other methods of communication offered in a video game, and that alone raises the bar pretty high.

We may not however apply the inverse and say that SLs without voice should not lead. The key is communication: the movement of information, orders, positions and the like from top to bottom. In a clan (or similar), a simple keybind or a move in one direction versus another could account for all the information that needs to be passed around. In a public environment this is often best facilitated by voice, but there ARE other avenues and they must not be discounted simply because they aren't the best.

To those who argue that microphones are cheap and everyone should have one and use one, please start another thread where you offer to buy and ship headphones to anyone who requests them. If you are not willing to bear that onus, please quiet down about how others choose to spend their money.

Remember, the key -- here, and everywhere else at TG -- is communication. If an SL is not communicating, via voice, text, or smoke signals, then the SL should go.

The best method is not the only method, and should not be enforced as such.

12-14-2007, 07:32 PM	#1 (permalink)
RedHerring Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5	Requirement for SL and CO to use VOIP Has anyone ever thought to make it a requirement on the servers to have the SL and CO use there VOIP mic. The current BF2142 rules states the following: 5) Audio is required. Every individual must have the capability to hear the voicecomms of other members of his team. While the use of mics is strongly encouraged, the requirement is that you have VoIP enabled and can hear your teammates. If you are unable to hear, please contact an admin and inform him of your situation. I have had many games in BF2142 with squad leaders and/or commanders that just will not talk. Although the games can be fun I believe the teamplay is severely lacking. Personnaly, I do not believe people should be going for those positions if they do not plan to communicate over VOIP and I Just wanted to see what other peoples thoughts were.

12-14-2007, 08:04 PM	#2 (permalink)
Eroak Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bucks County, PA Age: 28 Posts: 3,414	Re: Requirement for SL and CO to use VOIP It is good in theroy, but that would make a few problems. 1st it would shy away good people/players who have a busted mic or no cash for a mic. Yes they don't have to CO or SL, But I rather have a good player there then a pubbie that doesn't know what hes doing and chooses not to say anything like most. Having a good SL would require more VOIP then the CO because of the micro-managing involved. But I haven't really run into the issue of SL's not using VOIP. And if they don't, they usally don't lead the squad anyways which is a kickable offense. 2nd reason, administration of it would be difficult. Admins using the console wouldn't be able to tell if it's someone who has a broken mic, which isn't fair, or someone whos shy to someone who jsut doesn't care to use it. All that is required is to hear because you can't recive orders without hear anyone. And who here has played 2142 without speaks on a regular basis? Thanks for the idea, but it's not going to be able to go far. __________________ \|Think Tank\|TGU Admin\|BFx Admin\|Community Improvement\| From the TG Primer: 2) Create an environment where there is mutual respect for your fellow gamers and where all members would be working together to advance the enjoyment of their hobby.

12-15-2007, 12:01 AM	#5 (permalink)
Lorax74 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bridgewater, NJ Age: 34 Posts: 6,839	Re: Requirement for SL and CO to use VOIP Keep one thing in mind, not every squad leader without a mic is a bad squad leader. I'm sure there are folks out there that play in abyss and never felt the need to purchase a mic mic. When a round starts with a mic-less SL, give them the benefit of the doubt and see how they do. If they don't attempt to lead you in anyway report them. You could also leave the squad and start your own. But, if the person does attempt to lead either via chat or a combination of the commo and tactical rose, then suggest to them that they get a mic. Same goes for CO. You never know, you may be the one who converts the next pubbie into a true Tactical Gamer. __________________ TG-9th Lorax74

12-15-2007, 03:19 AM	#6 (permalink)
Vortex421 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Muncie, IN Age: 24 Posts: 1,193	Re: Requirement for SL and CO to use VOIP It's not as if a mic is expensive these days or something - I can buy one off the shelf at Wal-Mart for $15 or less. I'll be honest, I grow weary of SLs who do not have mics. Games of this sort require a faster response time than typing up answers. Ever tried typing a warning to someone that an enemy is around the next corner? You'll know what I mean. The role of a squad leader is to lead. Leading does not just mean slapping down a point and saying attack it or defend it on a map. Leading means that you communicate clearly and effectively with the rest of your squad as to your objectives, orders, and intent. That's what leadership is all about - it's communication. So, while I understand that not everyone has a mic, and while I will gladly play with those who lack them, it is my strong belief and conviction that if you are going to lead, be it squad level or team level, a mic be in your possession. It's not expensive and it's not hard to do. __________________ \|TG-8th Mercs\|*New to TG? Start here*Become a Supporting Member "Remember to pillage BEFORE you burn!" "Rule 35: That which does not kill you has made a tactical error." "Rule 36: When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support." "Rule 39: There is no such thing as "overkill". There is only "open fire" and "I need to reload". (Rules compliments of the infamous Schlock Mercenary webcomic.)

12-15-2007, 04:31 AM	#7 (permalink)
Ainselie Join Date: Dec 2006 Age: 23 Posts: 599	Re: Requirement for SL and CO to use VOIP I strongly agree with the RedHerring and Vortex421. I would like to make the following deductive arguement: A squad leader who does not have a microphone is in no capacity to lead. - Battlefield 2142's pace is too fast for a squad leader to type any reasonable message in chat. With respawn timers less then 15 seconds, a squad leader cannot control his squad member's spawn points. By the time he has conveyed a spawn location over chat, other squad members would most likely be spawned in. - A squad leader cannot issue contact reports without a microphone. - A squad leader cannot issue complex orders in a reasonable amount of time. I.E. instructing an engineer motion mining a particular area of the map. - Chat messages are displaced from the screen quickly, and has a high probability of not being seen by squad members. IF, a squad leader is unable to instruct his squad on where to spawn, when to spawn, issue contact reports, direct movement, direct kit load outs, or to convey other complex orders in a reasonable amount of time, he is not doing his job and not leading the squad. IF, it is not possible to direct movement, issue contact reports, direct kit load outs, control spawn time and location in a reasonable amount of time without a microphone, he is unable to lead his squad. THEREFORE Q.E.D., a squad leader without a microphone is in no capacity to lead. If the admin team has already decided and enforcing the requirement that squad leaders must lead, and if it is not reasonably possible for squad leaders to lead without a mic, can't one by extension to include enforcement of squad leaders to have microphones? (That is if you buy the logic above) __________________ >> Sins of a Solar Empire <<

12-15-2007, 09:37 AM	#9 (permalink)
MDFubar Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: New Castle, DE Age: 41 Posts: 1,915	Re: Requirement for SL and CO to use VOIP Whether or not this is up for debate, I would have to agree with the fact that an SL without a mic is not able to effectively lead thier squad. I have had to step down simlpy because no one could undertsand my drunken slurring...........but I had a mic! __________________ "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." - General George Patton Jr Acknowledge your teammates' Outstanding and Distinguished efforts: Submit a nomination NEW TO TG START HERE SUPPORTING MEMBERSHIP ADMIN LIST TG-21ST DIVISION**

12-17-2007, 08:34 AM	#11 (permalink)
Rasta-GR Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: RastaLand Age: 41 Posts: 592	Re: Requirement for SL and CO to use VOIP Hello, There are two factors here. Tactics and Reality. SL's and CO's that use VOIP, they increase the reality factor. In addition, VOIP comms gives you a tactical advandage over non-VOIP comms. However, a good SL and CO, can be really tactical, by just using the keyboard commands to give orders and chat in text. And what about hearing and speach impaired / disabled people ? Why not give them a chance to enjoy this lovely game and community ? Regards. __________________ TG-E1st TacticalGamer European Division \| Team up with us today! New to TG? - TG Primer - BF2142 Rules - TG University - TeamSpeak Report Infractions - Contact a game Admin - Submit a nomination for an award "All wars are fought for money" (Socrates, 470-399 BC) "Only the dead have seen the end of the war" (Plato, 427-347 BC) "We make war that we may live in peace" (Aristotle, 384-322 BC)

12-17-2007, 05:30 PM	#12 (permalink)
Azura Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Newington, CT Age: 20 Posts: 1,148	Re: Requirement for SL and CO to use VOIP I really tend not to join a squad without a leader with Voip, but sometimes when I am in Azura-Casual mode I don't mind. Because it gives me a little more freedom, but I still stay with the SL. I think if you told people you don't have a mic so you can't SL it'll hurt their feelings and make them resent TG. Because that SL who keeps playing without a mic and falls in love with the server might go out and by one and then become a Supporting Member. I think I played the TG server for about 3 months and I think Heavy said when are you going to get a mic. Later that week I plugged it in and set up Voip. __________________

12-17-2007, 08:16 PM	#14 (permalink)
MDFubar Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: New Castle, DE Age: 41 Posts: 1,915	Re: Requirement for SL and CO to use VOIP I would say that in the event that there is no rule/enforcement requiring the use of VOIP for an SL or CO, that we could be courteous and explain the situation to the person that is making a reasonable effort. What we will end up with is a squad of pubs with no communication and squads of others with grreat communication. Maybe even take the time to say "hey I will squad with you this round, then you let me be SL and notice the difference in communication". No, not everyone has the time or patience for this, myself included sometimes. We stand out as a great community to game with now, anything that improves our image is great. Mishandling of an issue conerning the use of every tool the EA has given us to make the game more enjoyable would only negatively effect those who really don't care anyway. In my opinion. The game designers gave us these tools, we should encourage the use of them. I personally don't have a problem with a SM that doesn't have a mic, but I can tell you that it does make a difference in squad performance. I almost never look at the chat in game, I am too busy trying to position my squad, call out enemy positions, direct counter measure, watch my mini-map, communicate with the CO, and stay alive. Just a rambling thought. __________________ "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." - General George Patton Jr Acknowledge your teammates' Outstanding and Distinguished efforts: Submit a nomination NEW TO TG START HERE SUPPORTING MEMBERSHIP ADMIN LIST TG-21ST DIVISION**

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