Takk

I witnessed something just a few minutes ago that made me very angry. I shouldn't even be writing this right now, as I am still quite upset. However, I believe it needs to be said.

Today, while playing Fall of Berlin, I formed a squad. We were assaulting, and as everyone knows, it can be very difficult to break through Roadblock. I had a couple TGers and a few pubbies. We died a few times trying to break through, and on a few occasions we were able to get by Roadblock only to die a short time after.

To my dismay, I saw person after person leave my squad. (Many of whom went to different squads.) So I found myself.....by myself, assaulting their home base. I had a beacon close by, so it wouldn't have taken much to cap it. However, I was alone...so it didn't quite work.

Now, I'll be the first to admit that I'm not the best squad leader. Due to the fact that I have so little time doing it. I would much rather follow orders, than give them. However, I decided that I would try to put more time in as a SL to build up my skills. (As we all know, you can't get better at something unless you do it.)

I can't convey how aggravated I got when I saw TGer after TGer leave my squad in the middle of a match. I also can't convey how much it disheartened me to even try to SL again.

I was under the impression this is a TEAM game, and that TGers tried to help one another...not make eachother feel completely useless.

We are not all Pfeil, Reaper, etc. We are not all perfect Squad Leaders, especially if we're not used to doing it. So instead of leaving someone out there all alone, how about giving a little advice over VOIP? You know..something like "Squad Leader, the eastern side doesn't seem to be as heavily guarded, maybe we should try that way."

I'm beginning to question the 'maturity' of some of the people here, who when things aren't going their way, they take their ball and go elsewhere, like a little kid.

Exploding_Silver

This may be a silly question ...
are you sure your mic wasn't accidently muted and people couldn't hear you ?

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daithi1

Takk don't lose heart it is perfectly possible that your pubbies were doing what pubbies were doing best (being silly) and your TGers were not SMs so they got kicked or team switched. This is possibly unlikely but I always think the best . I'll be on now in a miute and I would be happy to SM under you.

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MDFubar

Wow! Let me start by saying that we should not leave a squad until the round is over. This has been discussed in other threads, for the exact reason you stated Takk. Whether you are new or you mic quit, someon should have tried to let you know via in game chat or TS or something. I do not know all of the particulars, but I can say that you have every right to feel that way.
I would also suggest that maybe you could PM the Tg'ers that left and ask why? There is no need to discuss names in the forums, you did fine last night as an SM in my squad. Yes, Sl'ing takes a bit of practice and it helps when you have people willing to help you out. I will be on shortly and will gladly SM under you.
I am sure that there is just somethign that was missed, but regardless it shouldn't happen.
please take a deep breath, close your eyes, take a drink, and try to put it past you. Let's move forward.

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Zhohar

Every experience, especially negative ones like this, are absolutely golden. Take what you saw, Takk, and understand why it happened. Why doesn't it happen to Pfeil or Crux?
What do they do that you haven't? What didn't they do that you did?

We can't tell you what you've done wrong because none of us were there. And yes, the simple fact is that you screwed up. That doesn't feel good, does it?
Every time you make a push, and your squad dies, it's not because "we had crappy shooters". It's your fault.

See why people don't like SLing? It's your responsibility to win, no one else's. If your squad isn't winning, it's your fault. And especially if your squad is leaving you, it's your fault.

Don't misunderstand this: I've nothing against you. I've played with you before and you're a decent fellow, but you need to understand that this isn't something you can blame on TG or the people who left your squad: this was your mistake and you need to fix it.
Don't dwell on failure, just fix it. The Third had a scrim a couple of weeks ago and we lost horribly. Not once did I hear Crux whining, complaining, or saying "woah, these guys are good." All I heard was "ok, how can we improve that?"

Same with you now -- you shouldn't be writing this thread like you did, you should be asking "what'd I do wrong? What can I fix? How could I have I done better?"

Here's some ideas along those lines:
- Don't sit back as a SL. Always make sure you know what every member of your squad ought to be doing, and make sure they do it. Don't let people wander, don't ever be caught without a plan, don't ever not know what playerX ought to be doing right now.
- Talk. Let people know what you are doing and why. Communicate thoroughly so that people don't think you're just putting a half-assed effort into T-Click "Assault this position!".
- Let your people know you're having a bad round, or are new at SLing, and that they ought to pay attention and give you advice.
- If you do the above, justify your orders. Instead of saying "Let's assault Church" say "Let's assault Church because there's only a few defenders there" or "Let's head to South Town Centre it will give us a good foothold to put rockets on Church".

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ThePromQueen

Absolutely! Remember what I said last night, Takk? It was something to the effect of "I am playing really poorly tonight so I suggest that everyone spawn in and just try to do the best they can, and I'll try to give some orders."

I think it is totally acceptable to let everyone know that you are pretty unfamiliar with SLing and that you are going to try to do your best and that they at least give you a chance.

One thing I ALWAYS try to say when I know our team is going to have a tough time is, "I know my ideas are not the best and they may not work, but they will DEFINITELY not work if we don't work together."


Props for trying

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bb gun

That's pretty low of TGers to jump out for another squad in the middle of a round, but don't take it personally.

If everyone had common sense, politeness and respect...all of our lives would be a lot easier.
Unfortunately, sometimes good people make poor decisions, and squad jumping on a fellow TGer would be one of them. Correct it by continuing to set a good example, and don't let it get you down.

I'd be happy to be in your (or any other aspiring SL) squad any time, Takk. Your desire to be a better leader already elevates you above the masses. Stay the course...

Some day people will be saying "I wish i could be as good of a SL as Takk..."

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|TG-9th| BBgun. - I'll put your eye out, kid.

Bc2ID

Zhohar, I agree with you to a point. As a tag wearing player, wouldn't the correct course of action to be.."hey SL, I am going to jump into so and so's squad...thanks for the round." I would hope that if someone is jumping squads then "communication" would be made to let the SL know this. I can understand Takk's frustration and I am sure he will beat himself up about this without our help.

Takk don't worry about it, as there are many of us that will serve under you. Just like Zhohar stated, take this as a learning experience and build upon it. Remember how you felt when your SM's abandoned you and never make the same mistake. Emulate the fine SL's that we have here and use some of their knowledge to lead better.

I realize that not all of us are pwn and leet...but we should show some sort of courtesy to our fellow member. Like daithi1 stated, maybe there were some other issues that you are unaware of. Maybe give them the benefit of the doubt and shoot them a PM to discuss your questions...

B

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Crux

First off Takk, Zhohar is like the 3rd's cranky grandfather - he's so old he doesn't care what people think anymore and he's just brutally honest as he sees it So don't take his words to heart!

Two issues here really:

1) You don't really know why your squad was abandoned. Without this knowledge it might be a bit premature to run to the forums and lambast the people who were playing with you.

2) If people were leaving, don't be mad. Learn from your experience. Try to figure out exactly why they left and what you can do differently. It is great to hope for feedback from your squad members. But, not all of them will be in a position to actually give you meaningful feedback. By my count there's only a half a dozen to a dozen *truly* good Squad Leaders who frequent the TG servers. Unless you're lucky enough to have one of them in your squad and with the time/mindset to teach you, what makes you think some random folks who wear "TG" before their name will be able to improve what you're doing?

Honestly, just think back over your round. Did you communicate to them well? Did they communicate back? If nobody in your squad communicated back, it might be they didn't have mics, or couldn't hear you talking. There is your problem #1

Another thing worth doing is try to get in the squad of someone you consider to be a very good SL on that same map. See what they do differently! It might be that they *try* the exact same things but communicate them differently. Or time them differently. Or both. Or something else super-secret you might not have thought of on your own. Learn from them!

I'll be honest in that I don't SM very much, and since my early days with 2142 haven't done so. I'm picky about who I'll SM under. But, when I do SM, I'm always looking to see what the SL does differently to me - even looking for mistakes they are making I can learn from. Be the same way!

And above all, don't give up.

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Thesleeper01

I have left squads for many reasons in the past. If I were in a squad that were doing something wrong and very bad I would generaly sudgest a different action plan. Some SL dont have enough skill to lead in a reasonable manner when being told, In those cases or when I dont want to play wet nurse I will drop from squad and join a different one or form one.

No offence intended but if you want to learn how to lead a squad join a SL that has some great skills and take notes. Even if your a great squad leader you will still have people drop from your squad with rare exception. The way someone leads can bother people enough to drop, some like a strong forcefull leader and others don't.

I will give you two bits of advise on leading squads.

1 - look around often, where is your squad and the enemy? Your squad should be with you. If there not tell them to join you. And call out where the enemy is and tell your squad to attack them (over VIOP)

2 - Make sure you have a solid mix of weapons, call for 4 assualt, 1 support & 1 eng. depending on the map get 1 more or less eng.

That will get you to the point you can engage the enemy stay alive defend yourselves and detect the enemy.

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rage4order

I think everything has been covered so no need to make the same points again. SL'ing at TG can be very difficult and very rewarding at the same time. And for the record, I believe an assault on Fall of Berlin may be one of the most difficult maps to SL on with not many options to break out and the grinder on in full effect. For learning purposes I would suggest leading on maps like Tunis Harbor and Belgrade as breakouts arent nearly as difficult as Carebear, Berlin and god forbid Camp G. Keep at it, it will come in due time with practice and patience.

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|TG-8th|RAGE

Zoticus

Hi Takk,

I've only played a few rounds with you as a SM in a squad I was leading and you made an impression with your good communication and good team play. I think with a little practice you'll be an excellent SL. I'd encourage you to SL more and I'll keep an eye out for your squad to jump into.

SL can be very frustrating some rounds, but it can also be fantastically rewarding when things are clicking. Keep at it and don't let the odd discouraging round get under your skin.

See you on the battlefield,
-Zot

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|TG-Irr| - Zoticus77

daithi1

This is Fubar's resolution to everything and I like it. Sorry for the off topicness but I feel the mood in this thread needed a bit of a lift.

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skullhedman

Unless he changed something, I was just on with him a little while ago and he sounded fine. I noticed a few pubbies pulling this with me just a little while ago on the server, but when they jumped back into the squad I gave them another shot. In one case, he did it again, and when he tried to come back in, I booted him and locked the squad.

The only other thing I can offer up Takk is how to "reign in" players. If you noticed earlier, whenever the squad started to wander, or a player started to lone wolf it, or I needed something done at that moment - in a pub situation - I repeated myself a few times.

"Player X, come back to me. Come back to me. Come on." If they don't hear me, they will the second or third. After a while you'll learn to control the guys in your squad.

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Pfeil22

Plenty of players wearing our community's tags leave my squads in the middle of rounds. Probably 90% of them don't even give me a heads up or courtesy flush on the way out the door. It used to bother me a lot and I tried to play the "What did I do wrong?" game with myself. In the end, however, I just accepted the fact that not everyone wearing our tags has the same level of maturity or thinks abandoning a Squad Leader to be a big deal.

My advice is to just start making a list of these players and don't invite or accept them into your squads.