Re: Vehicle assets

**Arithea** · 02-18-2008, 06:51 PM

Allow me to begin. First off, flatsix, there are some very, very talented gunship pilots who play 2142 pretty regularly. Second, it seems you are under the impression that the locked squads are for learning. This is not always true. Often, the people who create the locked squads do so because they feel they are competent with the armor involved and believe they will be helpful to their team in said vehicle. Sometimes they will include those who wish to learn more about the vehicle in question, but that's not always the case.

Beyond that, I'll let a few of the better gunship pilots respond to the rest of your post (I know Eroak, at least, is around here somewhere...), as I'm not the most knowledgeable on that topic.

**HockeyTemper** · 02-18-2008, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by Arithea

If the person in the armor can't see you and you're damaging their vehicle, they're probably going to assume you're not friendly and will kill you first and sort it out later. This is, after all, war.

This also brings up a good point, it IS NOT ok to "preemptively TK" someone. I admit that I have been guilty of this, and I was wrong. The same SL (of a 1 man squad) kept taking the FAV in Camp Gib and wrecking it. I waited at the spawn several times and tried to communicate with him. Each time he jumped in and ran off. So, the 5th or so time, I shot him in the brain and took the FAV for my squad. My excuse was "He was not using teamwork and impeding my squad." While this may seem like the right answer, it is not. You need to report him and try and work around his sillyness.

p.s. I wasn't accusing you of this Ari, just throwing it out there

**Mordona** · 02-18-2008, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by flatsix

I don't care what the rules are (and, please, don't remind me).

You really need to step back a second here and ask yourself, Are you here because it's a good and tough server or are you here because of TG and our philosophy? We that wear the TG tags do care very much about the rules that are in place. Sometimes we might question why we have these rules and decuss it, but until there is a dicision made. The rule is respected and enforced.

Originally Posted by flatsix

So how are these locked-for-educational-purposes asset squads contributing anything at all to the team? They aren't. The guys screwing around in floating gunships contribute nothing. They just die over and over again. They should practice in their own time on an empty server, then fly for real once they have it down pat.

I have practiced on my own private server. But how can you gain experience flying around on a empty server? Is it right to goto other ranked servers for our own selfish needs? No as a TG tagged person we don't. You wear the tags, our conduct follows to all servers you visit. Experience comes best by playing better players then you and getting your ass handed to yourself. 2 things happen, either the player leaves in frustration or becomes a better player up to his peers levels.

Originally Posted by flatsix

What about the good hovercraft/gunship pilots? I've never seen one on a TG server. Maybe I just don't play enough. I dunno. What I do know, though, is that a good chopper pilot/gunner combo in BF2 would mop up the entire map. The score differential between those guys and the rest of the team would be shocking. That doesn't happen in 2142.

Gunships are mechnicly different the it's BF counterparts. BF had choppers and fast movers. Gunships are a mix of both and limited to that only. 2142 maps are smaller and you tend to spend more time dog fighting then you do tank hunting. Engineers have a nasty habbit of killing gunships outright with Pilums and SAAWs if your careless. So experienced gunship pilots tend to say away from enganging infantry directly unless necessary.

Originally Posted by flatsix

So, you guys tell me, what were those smug hovercraft pilots contributing? Oh, they blew up a couple of tanks. Woohoo. Probably not as many as one of the good engineers on the team.

No player can make that call unless it's a person who devised the overall strategy for the round. Basic only the CO can truly make that call. We are gound pounding and who knows, That one tank that the gunship killed at Outter Bridge Lock might have saved the entire round and all he got was one lousy point. Points mean nothing to teamwork. Even teamwork points mean little. What matters is communication and playing respectfully. If you have thoses elements in check, then you have one serious force on the battlefield

**Anospa** · 02-18-2008, 08:03 PM

As an experienced pilot and gunner, I can honestly say that if you're doing your job well in 2142, you'll sadly not get many points unless you continually rape an area full of infantry. On the other side of that, your armor destruction capabilities could be vastly needed elsewhere. Many times I've sat there having a great round, taking out what seemed to be countless tanks and harrasing the enemy gunships to free up our armor. After all the action and chaos, the scoreboard pops up, and I'm always surprised by the lack of points. Then it hits you that you've helped your team tremendously and did a lot of armor denial.

**HBrutusH** · 02-18-2008, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by Eroak

We are gound pounding and who knows, That one tank that the gunship killed at Outter Bridge Lock might have saved the entire round and all he got was one lousy point. Points mean nothing to teamwork. Even teamwork points mean little. What matters is communication and playing respectfully. If you have thoses elements in check, then you have one serious force on the battlefield

Originally Posted by Anospa

As an experienced pilot and gunner, I can honestly say that if you're doing your job well in 2142, you'll sadly not get many points unless you continually rape an area full of infantry. On the other side of that, your armor destruction capabilities could be vastly needed elsewhere. Many times I've sat there having a great round, taking out what seemed to be countless tanks and harrasing the enemy gunships to free up our armor. After all the action and chaos, the scoreboard pops up, and I'm always surprised by the lack of points. Then it hits you that you've helped your team tremendously and did a lot of armor denial.

I can't say much that isn't said here, but I agree completely with both these posts. Points aren't everything, they used to be for me, then I finally reached the top, and it was all suddenly in perspective as to 'Why the hell take the FAV, take the tank and get some kills'. It's because it's fun (especially with Lorax driving), and in the end, that's what a game is all about.

(I mean, what's the point in points when you're a Brig. Gen. ?)

**flatsix** · 02-18-2008, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by Arithea

it seems you are under the impression that the locked squads are for learning. This is not always true.

Originally Posted by ThePromQueen

I have never witnessed someone create a "Gunship" squad for the purpose of learning. Now they may not be a pro or as good as someone else on the server, but they are trying.

Guys, that wasn't my claim at all. I was just replying to what Eroak had said:

Originally Posted by Eroak

True that, but everyone has a right to learn to. ... Are you going to use the asset to learn

He went on to relate a tale of how someone (Lorax, I think) forgot how to operate a Walker and how this locked-asset-squad thing was the perfect fix for him. So talk to Eroak if you have a beef with the locked-squads-for-learning thing. It certainly wasn't my idea.

Next:

Originally Posted by ThePromQueen

As an avid Gunship Gunner I can say that it is frustrating when you plan on running a Gunship squad and are denied. It is easy to take on the "I could do this better" attitude, but that isn't very mature.

Who here is taking that attitude? I'm not a fan of the gunships, and I never fly them. I did, however, point out that the guys in the locked squads the other night were pretty useless. But now I understand this is how one learns in TG. That's cool.

Originally Posted by HBrutusH

... I agree completely with both these posts. Points aren't everything, they used to be for me, then I finally reached the top, ... It's because it's fun (especially with Lorax driving), and in the end, that's what a game is all about.

Exactly. It should be fun. It is not fun when a squad gets all mad at another squad for taking their gunship. But since I'm obviously not going to win any converts in this discussion, I'll reconsider.

You know, I love driving the cars. I especially love metering out the boost at just the right moments to escape walkers and whatnot. I love jumping them. I love drifting them through turns, clipping my apex perfectly. But it sure does frustrate me when I die and discover that some lazy sap has taken my car and left it out in the middle of friggin nowhere. Then I have to walk all the way to the action, and the team suffers as a result. In other words, this other guy, this selfish lazy person, has *idled* me. The solution, I gather, is to form a "Buggy Squad". Right? Then no one will take our buggy, and we will use it to zip all over the map, wherever our CO tells us (the Buggy Squad) to go. It would neatly solve the problem of destroyed beacons. Now that would be brilliant, wouldn't it? Discuss.

**jazy2** · 02-18-2008, 10:25 PM

Oooh - my turn to get some popcorn - this is gonna be great...

**flatsix** · 02-18-2008, 10:37 PM

Update: On Suez this evening, the Buggy!! squad repeatedly found itself carless. Lame. Lame. Lame. We walked all over that friggin map while guys zoomed by--solo, no less--in our buggies. Eroak and many other senior TGers were playing in this match, yet no one called them out. No one ever asked--not even once--"Hey! Why is the Buggy Squad walking?" I have to say I was mildly disappointed.

**Reaperassault** · 02-18-2008, 10:59 PM

well that's up to you to report them, the admins have magic powers but are not all seeing

simply type: REPORTING <NAME> lack of teamwork (or other offense)
better yet get on TS and find and admin good places to look 2142 main channel, the IHS channels **side note please announce your arrival and departure and be aware that a match could be in progress if you are asked to leave

and bada boom the admins are on top of it, or will be shortly

**Augustus Gloop** · 02-18-2008, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by Arithea

Ah, yes, but you see, I don't think any IHS could handle more than one chick at a time. So it's probably a good thing you guys held out for Shinigami.

I tried to come up with some way of saying it wasn't fair to have more than one lady in a squad before other IHS had one too, but I couldn't phrase anything that didn't sound creepy!

**Augustus Gloop** · 02-19-2008, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by flatsix

Update: On Suez this evening, the Buggy!! squad repeatedly found itself carless. Lame. Lame. Lame. We walked all over that friggin map while guys zoomed by--solo, no less--in our buggies. Eroak and many other senior TGers were playing in this match, yet no one called them out. No one ever asked--not even once--"Hey! Why is the Buggy Squad walking?" I have to say I was mildly disappointed.

I'll be the first to tell you that admins can see a lot of things, but 2142cc doesn't beep me when it detects a buggy squad walking. It does however beep me when it sees "Gloop, I need to report SomeNoob for repeatedly taking the buggy solo when I have a squad dedicated to its use."

**Pfeil22** · 02-19-2008, 03:22 AM

Adapt, improvise and overcome, Squad Leaders. Despite your best intentions, sometimes assets are unavailable to you. It isn’t the end of the world and the fight still rages on across the battlefield.

I hate to think someone would waste their time arguing over who gets to drive the tank or fly a helicopter.

**MDFubar** · 02-19-2008, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by flatsix

Update: On Suez this evening, the Buggy!! squad repeatedly found itself carless. Lame. Lame. Lame. We walked all over that friggin map while guys zoomed by--solo, no less--in our buggies. Eroak and many other senior TGers were playing in this match, yet no one called them out. No one ever asked--not even once--"Hey! Why is the Buggy Squad walking?" I have to say I was mildly disappointed.

First, did you inform the CO that your buggy was being used? I mean the chain of command is SL>C0>Admin IMO.

Second, seeing someone solo in an FAV is not uncommon. I often take one and go solo until I get close to the objective, no point in three dying if I run inot a tank when only one has too.
That map is so big that I could understand why people where using it for transportation. There are more than one buggy on that map, so are they supposed to not use any until you tell them you have one?
Don't get me wrong, I understand where you are coming from but they are FAST ASSAULT VEHICLES and they are more used for transportation.

I think the main point is that when I intend to use a Buggy I inform the CO. "CO, Alpha squad will need an FAV to proceed to **** Flag"

That usually works.

**Arithea** · 02-19-2008, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by flatsix

So talk to Eroak if you have a beef with the locked-squads-for-learning thing. It certainly wasn't my idea.

Flatsix, I still don't think you're quite understanding how things generally work on the TG servers with locked asset squads. Eroak is in my IHS and I know pretty well how he views locked asset squads. The only point we're trying to make is that they're not created solely to learn how to pilot/gun for armor. They're usually created by people who want to have fun in a certain piece of armor with a couple of buddies.

I'm also under the impression that you see our way of doing things with regards to asset squads as somehow unsatisfactory. If that is the case, please give us some suggestions as to what would make it more fun for you.

**DaBrit** · 02-19-2008, 09:43 AM

Flatsix -- are you saying that you had a hard time finding a buggy on Suez canal? I find this hard to believe, as there are FAVs at practically every single flag! Additionally, considering the short respawn time, and very high use of FAVs by squad leaders (probably a large number of the solo people in buggies were SLs with a full squad chomping at the bit to spawn in), I'm not sure that making a buggy squad is even really necessary. I count 11 FAV spawns from the map at http://www.cooperclan.org/TG/2142maps/ -- I would put the image in this post, but I'm pretty certain I would fail miserably and just make a fool of myself

I've seen and participated in buggy doom squads (the art of taking buggies behind tanks to expose their sweet, tender behinds, and cackling maniacally as you fire a pilum up it), but I don't think that I've ever seen them request people get out of or leave FAVs.

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