TG-3rd and Community. AKA "Why We Lock Squads"

[jonathanshifty]

omg the 3rd is coming

[daithi1]

Some peoples attitudes in this thread really makes me feel annoyed.

WHy in the name of god does it have a rating of 1 star I mean ffs Crux comes out explains things that had been partially unexplained. He could have left it, but he didn't. Even if you don't agree with what is being said (why?) you still have to have respect for him coming out and talking about a somewhat touchy subject.

As for balance issues I've seen full 3rd squads being pummelled into the ground, yes it does happen they are human. Even if they've made the teams unbalanced the 3rd IMO are the best people to recognize this and try and rectify it.

Sorry I'm just annoyed people could take a stance against what is being said here, maybe I'm just as bad on the other extreme but 1 star...

[Crux]

Here's how I see it.

I love playing with you guys, but it's really a lot like an organized clan joining a pub server in any other game. Sure, TG is a 'cut above' but so are you. I'm not going to lie, and you're right, the 3rd are really good players.

So what happens is the 3rd stacks a team, and then the other team begins landsliding loss after loss after loss. People sit and wait for a spot to open to hop to your team, or simply quit in droves. I've observed it myself - just watching the scoreboard, the team that is being stacked against has someone leaving every 15 seconds, because sitting on one flag the entire game blows.

Stack is a problem overall, but when the 3rd does it, it's just game over, and there's just no point in even playing on the other team, because nobody stands a chance. I just left too. We just got done playing a few good games, I was with Zhoar and we ran a tight squad. The games were pretty fair, and there were a few other 3rd here or there, and on the other team.

Then next game, every 3rd player jumped to the other team, and we lost the next round 200-0. And so on. We didn't get more than two flags at a time, and it wasn't for lack of trying.

I know you want to play together. But what exactly do you guys learn just smearing the other team over and over? I don't want to say it, but my common sense says that "even though you are TG, do you really belong on the TG server?"

I understand and sympathize completely, and I won't say you shouldn't be able to squad, or should have to split up or something, because that's lame. Might as well start kicking people for being 'too good'. But YOU need to ask yourselves what the stack really does positively.

Where did you get stacking out of locked squads? We have a standing rule in the 3rd that we are NOT allowed to switch teams to be on the same side as each other unless there are 2 or less people on. Every once in a while someone might forget about this rule, but it is there nonetheless. So, while I do appreciate the candor, you are far off base by accusing us of stacking the teams.

[Damonte]

Damonte would just like to point out that if there is ever any feeling of the 3rd stacking... please... please pop into whichever teamspeak channel we happen to be in and let us know. We will eagerly correct for the situation to the best of our ability.

While Damonte does not mind this bring brought up... the onus is certainly on anyone who feels inclined to point it out to do their part in trying to correct the issue as much as any member of the 3rd. The 3rd is more than happy to try to ensure fair gameplay.

[Uranium - 235]

Where did you get stacking out of locked squads? We have a standing rule in the 3rd that we are NOT allowed to switch teams to be on the same side as each other unless there are 2 or less people on. Every once in a while someone might forget about this rule, but it is there nonetheless. So, while I do appreciate the candor, you are far off base by accusing us of stacking the teams.

First, calm down. I have nothing against locking squads, and I never said you stack teams all the time.

Maybe it's the way you worded it, but logically, doesn't locking a squad require several members of the 3rd on one team? Doesn't 'private practice' work better when you're together?

As I'm playing Devil's Advocate here, it just seems like anti-stack and pro-lock-squads are mutually exclusive... As I said, I have nothing against the 3rd and I really don't even frown upon any of your reasons listed here. I've had great experiences with you guys, but I've also seen what APPEARS to be a stack cause major imbalance, intentional or not. But going by what you said, this is what it's easy to infer. I've seen you keep your locked squad, and it's never bothered me. I might as well complain that the Gunship squad is locked. But I've also seen lots of you on one team before. That you have anti-stack rules is admirable, but there's something of a conflict of interest it seems.

[Razcsak]

Maybe it's the way you worded it, but logically, doesn't locking a squad require several members of the 3rd on one team? Doesn't 'private practice' work better when you're together?

Not always. We won't teamswitch if we have over two people in-game, which means we can easily run into other groups of practicing 3rd on the other team. Practice doesn't necessitate full six-man squads, in fact, we've had a lot of success with smaller squads. During some good nights, we can have more than enough to field a squad on each team, depending on where the auto-join places each member.

Remember, competition play is typically 5v5 and most often people are grouped in a squad of 3 and a squad of 2. If we've got a competition coming up, practicing in those squads can be very helpful.

[Superfast]

You guys can hide away together in your locked squads all you want! I'll be on the other team hunting you all down! *points finger at each member in succession*

[Crux]

You guys can hide away together in your locked squads all you want! I'll be on the other team hunting you all down! *points finger at each member in succession*

Ohnos! Chuck Norris is after us!

[Crux]

First, calm down. I have nothing against locking squads, and I never said you stack teams all the time.

I'm calm

Maybe it's the way you worded it, but logically, doesn't locking a squad require several members of the 3rd on one team? Doesn't 'private practice' work better when you're together?

Yes, a locked squad requires several members of the 3rd on the one team. But I don't consider a 3-man squad of 3rd to be unbalancing to a game. Private practice does work better when we're together. But a lot of the work we're focusing on now is in the 3-5 man range.

As I'm playing Devil's Advocate here, it just seems like anti-stack and pro-lock-squads are mutually exclusive...

I guess it depends on what you consider stacking. As I said I don't think a 3 man squad of 3rd to be stacking. I don't consider a 5 man squad of the 3rd to be stacking until the other team has shown an inability to handle it. But, this inability is demonstrated through one or two rounds.

That you have anti-stack rules is admirable, but there's something of a conflict of interest it seems.

I really don't get where you're seeing a conflict of interest.
1) we're happy to run small squads sometimes when we are being serious about training
2) We have rules in place about team switching that generally results in members of the 3rd being on both sides
3) We have other competitive IHSs such as the 9th, 21st etc to align against and who are more than happy to offer stiff resistance even if we all do end up on the same side

One thing I'm not sure you are realizing is that we *want* a challenge. We *want* close, hard fought rounds with lots of pressure. We *want* to be facing as skilled a team as possible. Stacking teams accomplishes nothing for us.

[MDFubar]

So what happens is the 3rd stacks a team, and then the other team begins landsliding loss after loss after loss. People sit and wait for a spot to open to hop to your team, or simply quit in droves. I've observed it myself - just watching the scoreboard, the team that is being stacked against has someone leaving every 15 seconds, because sitting on one flag the entire game blows.

Stack is a problem overall, but when the 3rd does it, it's just game over, and there's just no point in even playing on the other team, because nobody stands a chance. I just left too. We just got done playing a few good games, I was with Zhoar and we ran a tight squad. The games were pretty fair, and there were a few other 3rd here or there, and on the other team.

Then next game, every 3rd player jumped to the other team, and we lost the next round 200-0. And so on. We didn't get more than two flags at a time, and it wasn't for lack of trying.

Man, I don't know how to address this without offending so I will say it now. PLEASE DO NOT BE OFFENDED BY THIS:

The way you describe the happenings and the feelings involved seem to invoke that you want the game to always be fair, well it is not. I prefer to be challenged, if I get my ass kicked in the process then I learn form it. If I see the 3rd on one side, I will switch to the other to help that team out. Teamwork is what wins this game, not stacking. I have personally taken down a squad of the 3rd with a squad of pubbies, call it luck but damn they felt great!
If I am on a team that is losing terribly, it is usually for a lack of teamwork.
Would you tell two squads from another clan that they can't play because they are stacking?? Say it ain't so!

The 3rd, because this is who the discussion is about, does nothing more than show what great teamwork and communication can do. They set one of the best examples that I can think of. Would it be stacking(or unfair) if 2 of the best players from 3 IHS formed a squad and played on the server. The 3rd will take you in and help you anytime and I have played with them and against them. Although I enjoy teaming with them, I much more enjoy the challenge of taking some pubbies in a squad against them.

Almost every battle is winnable from either side if you have teamwork and communication, that is what they are showing in the server and they should be admired for thier dedication to the TG way and thier teamwork....not EVER ridiculed.

Sorry if I offended anyone, but I couldn't stop my fingers from typing..

[Uranium - 235]

Would you tell two squads from another clan that they can't play because they are stacking?? Say it ain't so!

Actually, servers I used to run always had this rule. It DOES imbalance the game, and a random clan that showed up in my server to 'practice' by stacking one team or the other ruins games for everyone else. If they want to practice, they can get off my server and get their own.

[Crux]

I know you want to play together. But what exactly do you guys learn just smearing the other team over and over? I don't want to say it, but my common sense says that "even though you are TG, do you really belong on the TG server?"

So by your definition we're stacking any time 2 or more of us play on the same team. Does this apply to all other IHSs as well, or just the 3rd? Does the 11th get to play on the same team ever? Or will you save that for the freaking free server the 3rd donated to you guys for a month?

I understand and sympathize completely, and I won't say you shouldn't be able to squad, or should have to split up or something, because that's lame.

But you've already said just that. You've asked if we belong on the TG server. Think about it.

[austforbeer]

To begin I think we all should realize that this type of situation isn't an isolated incident for this server let alone this game. ANY server that has a competitive squad formed around it is going to have situations and complaints like these. It's the nature of the beast.

What makes this situation different however is the brass's strong belief in rules, teamwork, and fairness which could ironically be interpreted as a contradiction. Really, I feel that it it’s not.

To the people who are complaining I have to ask, do you get just as upset when you lose a map when the 3rd isn’t playing? We all lose maps and it’s more often than not that one side will lose a few maps in a row. Generally whichever team has the best players is going to win. It happens and it’s part of the game.

This server is based on teamwork and I find it amusing that some of you are upset when it’s put into practice. This type of ‘soccer mom’ mentality of make it as easy for everyone is detrimental to say the least.

Instead of complaining about people working together you should be playing making friends with regular players doing the exact same thing they are. This is especially true if you are a regular long term player. While you may not be as good as a squad that plays together more consistently that doesn’t mean that they’re unstoppable. Believe it or not there are weaknesses to squads that stick together like they often do. (It’s called grenades)

Nobody likes to lose but if it’s that unbearable just switch servers or take a break. No matter what you do or say people WILL work together as the game intends and out play the other team.

[MDFubar]

Actually, servers I used to run always had this rule. It DOES imbalance the game, and a random clan that showed up in my server to 'practice' by stacking one team or the other ruins games for everyone else. If they want to practice, they can get off my server and get their own.

Gladly, they are welcomed on our server so that we may learn and grow. Not to mention be challenged to bring our skill leve to a higher ground, and make some new "teamwork" oriented friends.

[austforbeer]

Some peoples attitudes in this thread really makes me feel annoyed.

WHy in the name of god does it have a rating of 1 star I mean ffs Crux comes out explains things that had been partially unexplained. He could have left it, but he didn't. Even if you don't agree with what is being said (why?) you still have to have respect for him coming out and talking about a somewhat touchy subject.

As for balance issues I've seen full 3rd squads being pummelled into the ground, yes it does happen they are human. Even if they've made the teams unbalanced the 3rd IMO are the best people to recognize this and try and rectify it.

Sorry I'm just annoyed people could take a stance against what is being said here, maybe I'm just as bad on the other extreme but 1 star...

Just playing devil's advocate here but just explaining why you're doing something doesn't mean people are going to be OK with it.

One thing I didn't mention before about locking a squad is if you're allowed to do the exact same thing there's no reason for you to get upset if someone else is doing it. If only TG people were allowed then I would understand but otherwise there should be nothing wrong with it.