How about some common courtesy?

**MDFubar** · 03-28-2008, 12:36 AM

Yes, I am rambling on about how I percieve things and what irritates me. TG is a community of mature gamers that want to play the game in a realistic and tacticla manner. We also like to teach, educate, enhance, help, and encourage others to do the best they can and we offer the assistance o do such. We offer guidance, personal assistance, classes intsructed by experienced people, and any advice that is asked for. We try to make the player netter than they ever thought they could be, but most of all...we encourage fun and acceptance.

So why this post? Have you read the recent threads? There are too many posts with engative and derogatory statements towards players, people, and noone in particular. Now I don't know about you, but I was told that if you can;t find a positive way to say something, then don't say anything.

If you are unhappy with the way something is, find a way to ask for change without being derogatory towards what is already there. If you see poeple doing things that you think makes no sense, don't call them "stupid".....ask yourself what they could do to handle the situation better. Then offer a helping hand! This is what we do! This is why people join our COMMUNITY every day! This is why our server is packed on a daily basis!

Not because we called someone an idiot or stupid! If someone has belittled you in your life, get over it and stop doing it to others! Yep, I have read a few posts in here that have made me angry and I will speak my mind about it, you know why? Because that is not what TG is about!

Now to those who know who you are..........just take a minute and think before you post. Think if what you are about to say would hurt someone's feelings or make them feel lesser about themsleves. If it would, then don't say it!

I ahve managed people for 15 years and I can tell you one thing, you NEVER attack the person.....always address the situation! Belittling does nothing for anyone's cuase but bring resentment and hatred. We are not about that!

I have rambled and presented an opinion, whether you agree or not is your option. Please think about what I have said and try to set the BEST example you can when posting in these forums. Many people think very highly of us as a community, let's not give them a reason to think otherwise.

Thanx

MDFubar

**DaBrit** · 03-28-2008, 12:53 AM

I have to agree the the continuing negativity on the forums is affecting our community and playerbase. I think it's something we need to take seriously. Thanks for bringing this up, Fubar.

**Uranium - 235** · 03-28-2008, 03:09 AM

I'll be the first to admit that I'm abrasive. I say what's on my mind first and foremost. Of course someone's going to get offended - any time there's communication, someone's going to misunderstand, someone's going to take something personally, or someone might just not have any sense of humor whatsoever. This is also the INTERNET. Who you are, what your background is, and your personal issues are meaningless, unknown, and frankly, unwanted. I have enough **** to deal with without someone else's drama in my life.

I've been posting on forums for longer than I can imagine. I've honed my 'e-persona' to a point that won't be changing anytime soon, and in fact, the face I present here is dramatically more restrained than anywhere else (though that's mostly for the knee-jerk reactions and threats I get on a weekly basis). Text is a crappy medium. It's easy, especially on a forum, for your point to get diluted, for people to ignore your posts, and to miss the entire meat and potatoes of your post. Emotions are powerful things. How I word a post, like THIS VERY ONE, is done so not in any formulaic presentation, but simply through my own perspective as the way that is most likely to get noticed. People DO get emotional about my posts, which means they had a bigger impact on them than anyone else's. It sticks with them. Ignore how I say it, just get the message that I send across.

You may have been taught "If you can't find a positive way to say something, then don't say anything," but I was always taught "Never be scared to speak your mind". "Don't let someone tell you what to think". "Don't let what someone else thinks of you bother you". So essentially what you're asking for is censorship. Maybe I shouldn't say "god damn" in voice chat in case I offend a Bible-thumping Christian (I won't do that, FYI), but I also shouldn't say anything except "oh sugar!" in case there's children playing (I hate children too). Maybe I should also just play with arrow keys because I might kill someone who doesn't handle losing very well and I don't want to annoy them either. I also shouldn't get drunk and play in case someone's an alcoholic and will then get inspired to have a drink too, then down the bottle, then go driving, and crash their car into an orphanage.

Here's an example. I just read a great, entertaining post about moronic things people insist on doing that defy all logic, reason, and sheer common sense. Even though you'd think they'd grow out of these habits after a day of playing, they keep doing them. It's boggling. And now half the replies in that thread are about how posts like that are somehow chasing away new members (doubtful), and now 'Noob' is "THE N WORD".

I'm not a moron. I know that there's lines that don't cross. But when using "THE N WORD" is 'killing TG' and 'chasing away members'... if I could roll my eyes any harder they'd probably fall out of my head.

You said it yourself, this is a place for mature gamers. Maturity has absolutely NOTHING to do with complaining about everything being politically correct, assuming everything is a personal insult, or having skin so thin you could cut it with a 'yo mama' joke. I see 'maturity' thrown around in nearly every thread that turns awry, but I wonder if anyone actually understand what it means, what it implies. Maturity is actually the exact OPPOSITE. It's called being a grown-up and learning that you DON'T have a right to NOT be offended. I don't hang around people who get butt-hurt when I give them crap. Maybe I'm wrong in assuming everyone here DOES like those kind of people, but if someone seriously plays on our server, gets inspired to join the forums, and then quits in disgust because they saw "THE N WORD", frankly, would we miss them? I wouldn't want to play with someone patronizing me over voice chat about how I talk. Someone who is mature is going to say 'we have our differences, but it's not going to come between us'. Someone who is mature is going to think 'Why did he say that? Does he mean me? What is he really saying?' Someone who is mature is NOT going to read a 'mean word', smash the 'report' button, pound out a bunch of negative rep, and then start having a fit in the forum.

Oh I can see someone already reaching for the - rep button to complain about how I'm "not a team player". Well knock it off. Here's the hypocrisy: In my 'Conquest server sucks etc.' thread, I was told to leave the server about 6 times. Oh sure they said "maybe you should like, please, seriously, try to quit the game and 'take a break'? You could try playing on another server?" The message was the same. "We're not changing the server for you. Shut up and take your problems elsewhere." I finally got tired of hearing that crap, so I responded in kind, and someone - repped me for being 'negative'. No ****? YOU THINK? After three pages of considerable restraint, I'M the guilty one?

The irony is, of course, that it DID change.

Don't take what I say personally. I love playing with you guys, every one. I see a video where a guy walked cloaked completely unmolested past at least 5 enemies who didn't even pause to get a second opinion. I laughed and saw what I could only imagine are simply extremely incompetent players. Reaperassault got pissed and posted a sarcastic response. I was tempted to rip him a new *******, but I just clarified what I assumed was an obvious point. But I'm not going to meet Reaperassault in-game and refuse to talk to him, or avoid him. My ONLY fear is that in the reactionary 'OMG BE NICE' responses that people make around here, someone *IS* going to take their feelings in-game and then refuse to play with me. Which is simply childish.

The end result is that just as much as you may dislike how I write posts, I very much dislike what is essentially a tidal wave of elitist BS that washes in occasionally. I can't even IMAGINE someone quitting a forum because someone made a post with "THE N WORD" in it, but I *CAN* imagine someone quitting a forum when their first post has 12 PMs, three -reps, and a warning from a moderator about how "USING THE WORD RETARD COULD OFFEND SOMEONE WITH SPECIAL NEEDS!" ( ...speaking from experience here...) When you're so concerned about making sure everyone's singing Kum By Ya, you forget to ask why people are playing games in the first place. For FUN. I love having fun with you guys. I have a great sense of humor and I'll take and dish anything you give me. The fun ends when Sergeant Censor steps in and says I can't say any number of seemingly harmless things because someone MIGHT get offended.

Am I saying I should be free to say whatever the **** I want? Am I going to go into someone's "Help me!" post and call them a clueless ****ing moron? No, that IS uncalled for. I recognize that. But once again, this is about maturity. Think about that. Look at my location. I AM in the military. Not even the military is about 'Yes sir, no sir' and I take everything with a ****-eating grin. I've stood up to higher-ranking NCOs and called them out when I know they're wrong, when they're trying to screw me, or trying to screw my people. We had an expediter (our 'boss' on the flightline who manages what jobs we work) who never stood up to anyone. Production Flight would crap on him, and he'd salute and turn around and crap on us (even though we didn't work for Production). We got him fired for being spineless. Having thick skin will get you a hell of a lot more respect and make you a better person than being the guy who whines to the NCOIC about every stupid thing.

I have a few internet pet peeves that nobody here trips over. Nothing will drive me insane like simple stupidity. There's a lot of that on the internet so maybe that's where my abrasiveness comes from. TG is supposed to encourage and help new players, and I wholeheartedly agree. I will help people who are willing to learn, and I will have patience with them. But I don't have patience or tolerance for ignorance and stupidity. If you start shooting tanks with my machine gun, getting everyone' attention, I ask you to stop and you continue on unabashed, my tolerance for you just hit zero and I cease to care, because your 'fun' just now treaded all over my own.

PS: It took me like 25 minutes to write and rewrite this, so you BETTER enjoy it.

PPS: Also I want to mention that the original post absolutely reeks of hypocritical flamebait. I respect myself for not going ballistic on him like he deserves. I'm so great. Go me. Woo! Good job!

PPPS: Since I know someone already forgot "THE N WORD" was mentioned halfway through this post referring to how "noob" is now a banned word (oops! I just said it! *hides*).

**Superfast** · 03-28-2008, 04:32 AM

I so agree. Being polite, humble, helpful and in general having a positive attitude shouldn't be so hard. And it creates a more positive and including community for us all.

But sure we are all different and have good days and bad and sometimes miscommunicate, but respecting and forgiving each other is what mature grown-ups do.

Now, go be awesome on the server.

**Rasta-GR** · 03-28-2008, 06:30 AM

Constructive Criticism

Hello everybody.

Below you will find some points that could help, when you are criticizing something or someone in TG forums.

1. Understand why you are offering criticism. Feel confident that doing so is appropriate to the situation and constructive for the parties involved. Criticism voiced out of self-interest or competition may be destructive.

2. Engage in perspective taking or role reversal. As you develop a criticism strategy or response, try to understand the perspective of the person being criticized.

3. Offer criticism of the person's behavior, not on her or his "person." Refer to what a person does, not her or his "traits," or "character."

4. Even though criticism implies evaluation, emphasize description. Before offering any judgment, describe behavior you see or have experienced.

5. Focus your criticism on a particular situation rather than general or abstract behavior. "Index" and "date" your criticism, much like a "journalist": deal with who, what, where, and when.

6. Direct your criticism to the present ("here and now") rather than the past ("there and then").

7. Emphasize in your criticism your perceptions and feelings. Indicate what you think and feel about the other's behavior that you have described. Use "I" statements.

8. Invite a collaborative discussion of consequences rather than offering advice. Form a partnership to deal with problems. Do not compete with the other party; compete with the other person against the problem.

9. Keep judgments tentative. Maintain an "open door" of dialogue rather than presenting your "analysis" or "explanation" of another's behavior.

10. Present criticism in ways that allow the other party to make decisions. Do not force criticism on the other. Encourage the other to experience "ownership." People are more likely to comply with solutions that they generate.

11. Avoid critical overload. Give the other an amount of critical feedback that she or he can handle or understand at that time.

12. Focus criticism on behaviors that the other person can change.

13. Include in your critical feedback a positive "outlet." Reinforce positive actions and invite the possibility of change.

14. Invite the other to present criticism of you.

Regards.

**MDFubar** · 03-28-2008, 07:34 AM

Well, I can say this. I never mentioned any names and I stand my ground and fight for what I believe to be right. The point is not that you can't post your opinion, the point is not to belittle people while doing it. You are not the only one, and many people ahve done it..mysself included. That doesn't make it right, but bringing attention to it to try and lessen the blow to people will help.
I have not one personal problem with anyone in these forums and I don't comment on everything I read because sometimes it would just make things worse. There is always a way to speak your mind, defend your point, or even criticize someone without attacking them personally.
As for the negative rep, sorry to hear that...I have never - repped someone and don't think I ever would. But that is me.
Uranium, I don't have a problme with YOU. Expression your opinion is always welcome. As a matter of fact, the changes to the server are going well and you did have a lot to do with getting the ball rolling. That is a great thing, but I believe ther was a different way to say the same things without being derogatory.

Enjoy the servers and the forums, but remember that eveyone is(as you said) from different backrounds and you never know who you are talking to.

I am glad you spent so much time writing your post,

**MDFubar** · 03-28-2008, 07:41 AM

Uranium, You negative repped me? For what purpose? I for one have never negative repped anyone as it does nothing but....once again show need to belittle someone.

Simply amazing! The post was not intended for just you. I had mentioned no names as there would be many more to mention. My own name would be on that list, that doesn't make it right. I am bringing attention to it because that is not the image that I believe we want to project at TG.

Raising concern about a situation doesn't put anyone above critique, just simply brings it to the attention of those who may not otherwise think about it.

Oh, don't worry....I won't return the favor of the negative rep.

Have a great day.

sc1ence · 03-28-2008, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uranium - 235

. This is also the INTERNET.

This is TacticalGamer. Not the internet. We are a community of people - not avatars. We know each other fairly well and treat each other with respect and maturity. Any member of our community that does not realize the level of maturity we expect from our members will disappear soon enough through either their own actions or the actions of TG administration. There are plenty of other places people can spew negativity. Spew enough negativity here and they will ONLY be able to do it elsewhere.

**Uranium - 235** · 03-28-2008, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDFubar

Uranium, You negative repped me? For what purpose

It should've been for you "Do you ever post anything positive?!" post but the net effect was the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sc1ence

This is TacticalGamer. Not the internet. We are a community of people - not avatars. We know each other fairly well and treat each other with respect and maturity. Any member of our community that does not realize the level of maturity we expect from our members will disappear soon enough through either their own actions or the actions of TG administration. There are plenty of other places you can spew negativity. Spew enough negativity here and you will ONLY be able to do it elsewhere.

Quote:

You said it yourself, this is a place for mature gamers. Maturity has absolutely NOTHING to do with complaining about everything being politically correct, assuming everything is a personal insult, or having skin so thin you could cut it with a 'yo mama' joke. I see 'maturity' thrown around in nearly every thread that turns awry, but I wonder if anyone actually understand what it means, what it implies. Maturity is actually the exact OPPOSITE. It's called being a grown-up and learning that you DON'T have a right to NOT be offended. ... Someone who is mature is going to say 'we have our differences, but it's not going to come between us'. Someone who is mature is going to think 'Why did he say that? Does he mean me? What is he really saying?' Someone who is mature is NOT going to read a 'mean word', smash the 'report' button, pound out a bunch of negative rep, and then start having a fit in the forum.

Maturity is also discussing your problems with a person to their face, not reporting them to the admins first. Maturity also isn't about telling everyone to hold hands and sing Kum By Yah or they're going to be banned.

**Eroak** · 03-28-2008, 09:32 AM

The thread is about getting people to be more courteous in posts.

Keep it unpersonal.
Keep it constructive.

Any finger pointing and the thread gets locked.

Quote:

Maturity is a psychological term used to indicate that a person responds to the circumstances or environment in an appropriate manner. This response is generally learned rather than instinctual. Maturity also encompasses being aware of the correct time and place to behave and knowing when to act in serious or non-serious ways.

Psychologist B.W. Roberts explains that in an explicit model of personality, one's personality must be viewed from both the perspective of the actor and the perspective of the observer. Therefore, one's maturity is not measured solely on how he views himself, but by how others view him as well. By this definition, how an individual feels about himself is no more legitimate than how others feel about him, and so it is important that this individual gains a certain level of maturity as he grows older to earn the respect of others.

However, maturity need not reflect one's actions in a social situation among well-known peers, as in these situations there is no need to establish a sense of maturity as once maturity is established, it by no means has to be a norm. Furthermore, one need not establish maturity on how others view their personality, because a casual observer cannot totally judge someone he or she does not know on a personal level.

Maturity is something of personal character, or how one acts in stressful or difficult situations, because then a person's true ability to react to a situation can be seen. Fake social interactions are often misjudged as many people rely on outward appearance to mask inner strengths/weaknesses so as to present a simpler version of oneself to the world.

Additional ways to judge if a person is mature include rational thinking and logical explanation in solving a problem, and the art of reasoning while debating.

This message is for anyone thinking of posting anywhere on TG. You want it personal, Keep it to PMs.

**Foxtrot6** · 03-28-2008, 09:43 AM

There is a very high level of courtesy and maturity; nevertheless, this reminder was a good idea but some will always miss the point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uranium - 235

It should've been for you "Do you ever post anything positive?!" post but the net effect was the same.

Maturity is also discussing your problems with a person to their face, not reporting them to the admins first.

**Uranium - 235** · 03-28-2008, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eroak

This message is for anyone thinking of posting anywhere on TG. You want it personal, Keep it to PMs.

That was a double-edged sword you posted there that certainly supports exactly what I was talking about

As I said, maturity is the opposite of being butt-hurt because of what a stranger on the internet says. It also doesn't mean looking out for everyone else's interests either. It said "how you handle yourself in social situations". That doesn't mean I have to be touchy-feely-let's-discuss-emotions. I'm just repeating myself over and over, so I'll wait for something new to come up, if it does. All my feelings on this 'maturity omg' BS that comes up every now and then is there in my huge post.

Complaining about maturity is something that is overblown and is a knee-jerk reaction to anything anyone disagrees on around here, and I think some people need to think about what 'elitism' means too.

You can say all you want about how many PLAYERS the server has, but nobody starts derailing games about issues of 'growing up' like what happens around here, do they? There aren't anywhere near a fraction of the number of people on these forums as there are even semi-regular players on the server. The hardcore dedicated players are here, sure, but compared to other game community forums, these are suspiciously vacant of a flow of new players. For every 10-15 posts by a 'reg', there's maybe one post from someone I've never seen before. Perhaps a reevaluation of what is really 'killing the community' (as I've been accused of) is in order, and it has nothing to do with using the word "NOOB".

For the record, THIS is the community. Teamspeak. Forums. IRC (if we had one). The server is not the community.

**Superfast** · 03-28-2008, 11:29 AM

Uranium dude, it may be that i'm just foreign and don't get it. But what's with the hostility? Are you mad at someone or just making some point i just don't get?

**Skill4Lif3** · 03-28-2008, 11:38 AM

This thread is just calling to be locked...but to be honest Uranium, Fubar is just pointing out something that is present in our forums and is in no way specifically targeted to YOU. This thread is not for your arguments and if you have nothing good or beneficial to say...take it elsewhere please.

**Zhohar** · 03-28-2008, 12:16 PM

Quote:

The hardcore dedicated players are here, sure, but compared to other game community forums, these are suspiciously vacant of a flow of new players.

Being right and being popular are two very different things.

But let's get back to the subject, please. The forums will always have a negative influence because not everyone leads a fulfilled life. These people cannot leave their problems behind and they cannot come here to simply enjoy themselves.
We as a community can't do much about this: we can certainly tell them their behaviour is not tolerated or accepted and we can remove them from the community, but we cannot change who they are. What we can change is how we respond to their behaviour.

When faced with an immature or inflammatory player or poster, remember that how you respond is your own choice. You are not a slave to your emotions or first impulses: be polite, professional and mature. A child can reply to stupidity, immaturity, and insults in kind; it takes an adult to step above these things and reply in a manner that addresses the ideas and facts and leaves the emotional baggage to the original poster.
If someone gives you a gift, and you do not accept it -- who holds the gift then?

03-28-2008, 12:36 AM	#1 (permalink)
MDFubar Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: New Castle, DE Age: 40 Posts: 1,686	How about some common courtesy? Yes, I am rambling on about how I percieve things and what irritates me. TG is a community of mature gamers that want to play the game in a realistic and tacticla manner. We also like to teach, educate, enhance, help, and encourage others to do the best they can and we offer the assistance o do such. We offer guidance, personal assistance, classes intsructed by experienced people, and any advice that is asked for. We try to make the player netter than they ever thought they could be, but most of all...we encourage fun and acceptance. So why this post? Have you read the recent threads? There are too many posts with engative and derogatory statements towards players, people, and noone in particular. Now I don't know about you, but I was told that if you can;t find a positive way to say something, then don't say anything. If you are unhappy with the way something is, find a way to ask for change without being derogatory towards what is already there. If you see poeple doing things that you think makes no sense, don't call them "stupid".....ask yourself what they could do to handle the situation better. Then offer a helping hand! This is what we do! This is why people join our COMMUNITY every day! This is why our server is packed on a daily basis! Not because we called someone an idiot or stupid! If someone has belittled you in your life, get over it and stop doing it to others! Yep, I have read a few posts in here that have made me angry and I will speak my mind about it, you know why? Because that is not what TG is about! Now to those who know who you are..........just take a minute and think before you post. Think if what you are about to say would hurt someone's feelings or make them feel lesser about themsleves. If it would, then don't say it! I ahve managed people for 15 years and I can tell you one thing, you NEVER attack the person.....always address the situation! Belittling does nothing for anyone's cuase but bring resentment and hatred. We are not about that! I have rambled and presented an opinion, whether you agree or not is your option. Please think about what I have said and try to set the BEST example you can when posting in these forums. Many people think very highly of us as a community, let's not give them a reason to think otherwise. Thanx MDFubar __________________ "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." - General George Patton Jr Acknowledge your teammates' Outstanding and Distinguished efforts: Submit a nomination NEW TO TG START HERE SUPPORTING MEMBERSHIP ADMIN LIST TG-21ST DIVISION**

03-28-2008, 12:53 AM	#2 (permalink)
DaBrit Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 814	Re: How about some common courtesy? I have to agree the the continuing negativity on the forums is affecting our community and playerbase. I think it's something we need to take seriously. Thanks for bringing this up, Fubar. __________________ TG-9th - By Any Means

03-28-2008, 03:09 AM	#3 (permalink)
Uranium - 235 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Mountain Home AFB, ID Posts: 779	Re: How about some common courtesy? I'll be the first to admit that I'm abrasive. I say what's on my mind first and foremost. Of course someone's going to get offended - any time there's communication, someone's going to misunderstand, someone's going to take something personally, or someone might just not have any sense of humor whatsoever. This is also the INTERNET. Who you are, what your background is, and your personal issues are meaningless, unknown, and frankly, unwanted. I have enough ** to deal with without someone else's drama in my life. I've been posting on forums for longer than I can imagine. I've honed my 'e-persona' to a point that won't be changing anytime soon, and in fact, the face I present here is dramatically more restrained than anywhere else (though that's mostly for the knee-jerk reactions and threats I get on a weekly basis). Text is a crappy medium. It's easy, especially on a forum, for your point to get diluted, for people to ignore your posts, and to miss the entire meat and potatoes of your post. Emotions are powerful things. How I word a post, like THIS VERY ONE, is done so not in any formulaic presentation, but simply through my own perspective as the way that is most likely to get noticed. People DO get emotional about my posts, which means they had a bigger impact on them than anyone else's. It sticks with them. Ignore how I say it, just get the message that I send across. You may have been taught "If you can't find a positive way to say something, then don't say anything," but I was always taught "Never be scared to speak your mind". "Don't let someone tell you what to think". "Don't let what someone else thinks of you bother you". So essentially what you're asking for is censorship. Maybe I shouldn't say "god damn" in voice chat in case I offend a Bible-thumping Christian (I won't do that, FYI), but I also shouldn't say anything except "oh sugar!" in case there's children playing (I hate children too). Maybe I should also just play with arrow keys because I might kill someone who doesn't handle losing very well and I don't want to annoy them either. I also shouldn't get drunk and play in case someone's an alcoholic and will then get inspired to have a drink too, then down the bottle, then go driving, and crash their car into an orphanage. Here's an example. I just read a great, entertaining post about moronic things people insist on doing that defy all logic, reason, and sheer common sense. Even though you'd think they'd grow out of these habits after a day of playing, they keep doing them. It's boggling. And now half the replies in that thread are about how posts like that are somehow chasing away new members (doubtful), and now 'Noob' is "THE N WORD". I'm not a moron. I know that there's lines that don't cross. But when using "THE N WORD" is 'killing TG' and 'chasing away members'... if I could roll my eyes any harder they'd probably fall out of my head. You said it yourself, this is a place for mature gamers. Maturity has absolutely NOTHING to do with complaining about everything being politically correct, assuming everything is a personal insult, or having skin so thin you could cut it with a 'yo mama' joke. I see 'maturity' thrown around in nearly every thread that turns awry, but I wonder if anyone actually understand what it means, what it implies. Maturity is actually the exact OPPOSITE. It's called being a grown-up and learning that you DON'T have a right to NOT be offended. I don't hang around people who get butt-hurt when I give them crap. Maybe I'm wrong in assuming everyone here DOES like those kind of people, but if someone seriously plays on our server, gets inspired to join the forums, and then quits in disgust because they saw "THE N WORD", frankly, would we miss them? I wouldn't want to play with someone patronizing me over voice chat about how I talk. Someone who is mature is going to say 'we have our differences, but it's not going to come between us'. Someone who is mature is going to think 'Why did he say that? Does he mean me? What is he really saying?' Someone who is mature is NOT going to read a 'mean word', smash the 'report' button, pound out a bunch of negative rep, and then start having a fit in the forum. Oh I can see someone already reaching for the - rep button to complain about how I'm "not a team player". Well knock it off. Here's the hypocrisy: In my 'Conquest server sucks etc.' thread, I was told to leave the server about 6 times. Oh sure they said "maybe you should like, please, seriously, try to quit the game and 'take a break'? You could try playing on another server?" The message was the same. "We're not changing the server for you. Shut up and take your problems elsewhere." I finally got tired of hearing that crap, so I responded in kind, and someone - repped me for being 'negative'. No ? YOU THINK? After three pages of considerable restraint, I'M the guilty one? The irony is, of course, that it DID change. Don't take what I say personally. I love playing with you guys, every one. I see a video where a guy walked cloaked completely unmolested past at least 5 enemies who didn't even pause to get a second opinion. I laughed and saw what I could only imagine are simply extremely incompetent players. Reaperassault got pissed and posted a sarcastic response. I was tempted to rip him a new ****, but I just clarified what I assumed was an obvious point. But I'm not going to meet Reaperassault in-game and refuse to talk to him, or avoid him. My ONLY fear is that in the reactionary 'OMG BE NICE' responses that people make around here, someone IS* going to take their feelings in-game and then refuse to play with me. Which is simply childish. The end result is that just as much as you may dislike how I write posts, I very much dislike what is essentially a tidal wave of elitist BS that washes in occasionally. I can't even IMAGINE someone quitting a forum because someone made a post with "THE N WORD" in it, but I CAN imagine someone quitting a forum when their first post has 12 PMs, three -reps, and a warning from a moderator about how "USING THE WORD RETARD COULD OFFEND SOMEONE WITH SPECIAL NEEDS!" ( ...speaking from experience here...) When you're so concerned about making sure everyone's singing Kum By Ya, you forget to ask why people are playing games in the first place. For FUN. I love having fun with you guys. I have a great sense of humor and I'll take and dish anything you give me. The fun ends when Sergeant Censor steps in and says I can't say any number of seemingly harmless things because someone MIGHT get offended. Am I saying I should be free to say whatever the ** I want? Am I going to go into someone's "Help me!" post and call them a clueless ing moron? No, that IS uncalled for. I recognize that. But once again, this is about maturity. Think about that. Look at my location. I AM in the military. Not even the military is about 'Yes sir, no sir' and I take everything with a *-eating grin. I've stood up to higher-ranking NCOs and called them out when I know they're wrong, when they're trying to screw me, or trying to screw my people. We had an expediter (our 'boss' on the flightline who manages what jobs we work) who never stood up to anyone. Production Flight would crap on him, and he'd salute and turn around and crap on us (even though we didn't work for Production). We got him fired for being spineless. Having thick skin will get you a hell of a lot more respect and make you a better person than being the guy who whines to the NCOIC about every stupid thing. I have a few internet pet peeves that nobody here trips over. Nothing will drive me insane like simple stupidity. There's a lot of that on the internet so maybe that's where my abrasiveness comes from. TG is supposed to encourage and help new players, and I wholeheartedly agree. I will help people who are willing to learn, and I will have patience with them. But I don't have patience or tolerance for ignorance and stupidity. If you start shooting tanks with my machine gun, getting everyone' attention, I ask you to stop and you continue on unabashed, my tolerance for you just hit zero and I cease to care, because your 'fun' just now treaded all over my own. PS: It took me like 25 minutes to write and rewrite this, so you BETTER enjoy it. PPS: Also I want to mention that the original post absolutely reeks of hypocritical flamebait. I respect myself for not going ballistic on him like he deserves. I'm so great. Go me. Woo! Good job! PPPS: Since I know someone already forgot "THE N WORD" was mentioned halfway through this post referring to how "noob" is now a banned word (oops! I just said it! hides). __________________ Last edited by Uranium - 235; 03-28-2008 at 03:57 AM.*

03-28-2008, 04:32 AM	#4 (permalink)
Superfast Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Awesomeland Age: 32 Posts: 2,121	Re: How about some common courtesy? I so agree. Being polite, humble, helpful and in general having a positive attitude shouldn't be so hard. And it creates a more positive and including community for us all. But sure we are all different and have good days and bad and sometimes miscommunicate, but respecting and forgiving each other is what mature grown-ups do. Now, go be awesome on the server. __________________ TG-E1st TacticalGamer European Division - having fun on the battlefield, the "TG way" xfire: superfastkill steam: Superfast <=Awesomeness ribbon

03-28-2008, 06:30 AM	#5 (permalink)
Rasta-GR Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Greece Age: 41 Posts: 540	Re: How about some common courtesy? Constructive Criticism Hello everybody. Below you will find some points that could help, when you are criticizing something or someone in TG forums. 1. Understand why you are offering criticism. Feel confident that doing so is appropriate to the situation and constructive for the parties involved. Criticism voiced out of self-interest or competition may be destructive. 2. Engage in perspective taking or role reversal. As you develop a criticism strategy or response, try to understand the perspective of the person being criticized. 3. Offer criticism of the person's behavior, not on her or his "person." Refer to what a person does, not her or his "traits," or "character." 4. Even though criticism implies evaluation, emphasize description. Before offering any judgment, describe behavior you see or have experienced. 5. Focus your criticism on a particular situation rather than general or abstract behavior. "Index" and "date" your criticism, much like a "journalist": deal with who, what, where, and when. 6. Direct your criticism to the present ("here and now") rather than the past ("there and then"). 7. Emphasize in your criticism your perceptions and feelings. Indicate what you think and feel about the other's behavior that you have described. Use "I" statements. 8. Invite a collaborative discussion of consequences rather than offering advice. Form a partnership to deal with problems. Do not compete with the other party; compete with the other person against the problem. 9. Keep judgments tentative. Maintain an "open door" of dialogue rather than presenting your "analysis" or "explanation" of another's behavior. 10. Present criticism in ways that allow the other party to make decisions. Do not force criticism on the other. Encourage the other to experience "ownership." People are more likely to comply with solutions that they generate. 11. Avoid critical overload. Give the other an amount of critical feedback that she or he can handle or understand at that time. 12. Focus criticism on behaviors that the other person can change. 13. Include in your critical feedback a positive "outlet." Reinforce positive actions and invite the possibility of change. 14. Invite the other to present criticism of you. Regards. __________________ TG-E1st TacticalGamer European Division \| Team up with us today! New to TG? - TG Primer - BF2142 Rules - TG University - TeamSpeak Report Infractions - Contact a game Admin - Submit a nomination for an award "All wars are fought for money" (Socrates, 470-399 BC) "Only the dead have seen the end of the war" (Plato, 427-347 BC) "We make war that we may live in peace" (Aristotle, 384-322 BC)

03-28-2008, 07:34 AM	#6 (permalink)
MDFubar Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: New Castle, DE Age: 40 Posts: 1,686	Re: How about some common courtesy? Well, I can say this. I never mentioned any names and I stand my ground and fight for what I believe to be right. The point is not that you can't post your opinion, the point is not to belittle people while doing it. You are not the only one, and many people ahve done it..mysself included. That doesn't make it right, but bringing attention to it to try and lessen the blow to people will help. I have not one personal problem with anyone in these forums and I don't comment on everything I read because sometimes it would just make things worse. There is always a way to speak your mind, defend your point, or even criticize someone without attacking them personally. As for the negative rep, sorry to hear that...I have never - repped someone and don't think I ever would. But that is me. Uranium, I don't have a problme with YOU. Expression your opinion is always welcome. As a matter of fact, the changes to the server are going well and you did have a lot to do with getting the ball rolling. That is a great thing, but I believe ther was a different way to say the same things without being derogatory. Enjoy the servers and the forums, but remember that eveyone is(as you said) from different backrounds and you never know who you are talking to. I am glad you spent so much time writing your post, __________________ "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." - General George Patton Jr Acknowledge your teammates' Outstanding and Distinguished efforts: Submit a nomination NEW TO TG START HERE SUPPORTING MEMBERSHIP ADMIN LIST TG-21ST DIVISION**

03-28-2008, 07:41 AM	#7 (permalink)
MDFubar Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: New Castle, DE Age: 40 Posts: 1,686	Re: How about some common courtesy? Uranium, You negative repped me? For what purpose? I for one have never negative repped anyone as it does nothing but....once again show need to belittle someone. Simply amazing! The post was not intended for just you. I had mentioned no names as there would be many more to mention. My own name would be on that list, that doesn't make it right. I am bringing attention to it because that is not the image that I believe we want to project at TG. Raising concern about a situation doesn't put anyone above critique, just simply brings it to the attention of those who may not otherwise think about it. Oh, don't worry....I won't return the favor of the negative rep. Have a great day. __________________ "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." - General George Patton Jr Acknowledge your teammates' Outstanding and Distinguished efforts: Submit a nomination NEW TO TG START HERE SUPPORTING MEMBERSHIP ADMIN LIST TG-21ST DIVISION**

03-28-2008, 11:29 AM	#13 (permalink)
Superfast Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Awesomeland Age: 32 Posts: 2,121	Re: How about some common courtesy? Uranium dude, it may be that i'm just foreign and don't get it. But what's with the hostility? Are you mad at someone or just making some point i just don't get? __________________ TG-E1st TacticalGamer European Division - having fun on the battlefield, the "TG way" xfire: superfastkill steam: Superfast <=Awesomeness ribbon

03-28-2008, 11:38 AM	#14 (permalink)
Skill4Lif3 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Michigan Age: 20 Posts: 243	Re: How about some common courtesy? This thread is just calling to be locked...but to be honest Uranium, Fubar is just pointing out something that is present in our forums and is in no way specifically targeted to YOU. This thread is not for your arguments and if you have nothing good or beneficial to say...take it elsewhere please. __________________ "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's

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