twiddilywink

Just out of curiosity, did anyone find my post kind of funny? It took sometime to make it because i think this topic needs a little fun in it because it seems like teaching and yelling and crying and being people and complaining is all that is happening. TG should be fun lol =)

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|TG-Irr| Twiddilywink
Alpha Platoon is where to be :D

Towuaway2

what lorax said is 100% true!

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Thesleeper01

This is a good reason to use the Q function often. as well a commander is more likely to take care of targets they can see so if you see an armored vehicle q it and keep it qued though don't over spam q thats the commanders job everyone knows where it is and going .. unless of course its under a UAV or eng armor detector.

sights

the PK rockets:

Well they tend to remove from play some of my best hiding spots, because they are too narrow and/or small, so 2-3 rockets tear the skin of my bones...I'd say, increase the damage, maybe spread a bit, but REMOVE the *hit behind cover* thing?

pillum:

Since I drive everything except the buggy bad, the pillum seams like a very fast and powerful thing, the strongest for taking out vehicles (except maybe the EMP, RDX combo) ...

Engineers can often (90% of the time IMO) OWN vehicles. It just takes one EMP grenade, and 1 light-armored engineer (lets face it, heavy armor doesn't help the fragile engys survive much) to make that tank go back to the junkyard. Gunships are one of the best vehicles, but have been removed that total owning factor from BF2, which is balanced enough.

Buggy:

Yeah, decided to put this in, seams a little embarrassing for the engineers in the 22nd century to build the buggies so weak that they lose hp when they so much as drive over some rocks... (ESPECIALLY on tampa... )

But the machine-gun on the buggy is .. unbelievable (just love to enter Central Camp flag with 2 engies, and tear the infantry there)

...Oh and someone said the snipers are good for spotting? Yes, my top priority is to mark all the targets for my squad, then shoot 'em, then let God sort 'em ...
I love to save my teammates' backs from knifers... Although that doesn't save MY back

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It is art when you kill one person... and terrorize a hundred.

Shurikane

Oh, the gunship is still a pretty damned good tool of destruction when you're into it. I played a game yesterday and the enemy gunship singlehandedly wiped out the opposition. It took the team a good five minutes before someone could even get within podding range of the enemy Titan (and even then, the APC involved got blown up five seconds later.)

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DeimosManifest

You don't seem to realize the ENTIRE point, literally, the reason PK rockets are in the game is to hit you behind cover. So, as to your suggestion, no.


Yet another person that doesn't realize the Pilum is slow and does the exact same damage as the standard rockets. The difference is you can guide the rockets but they give a tone, while you cannot guide the pilum hence it gives none. Past even medium range, I can dodge pilum shots easily if I see them coming, half the time I don't even use the active defense on them. They're easy to see and move slow.

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Tearing structurally-superfluous new behinds with high caliber weapons since 2006.

Razcsak

The pilum actually does minutely less damage than the rockets to the walker's 'head', iirc. Its only advantage is the lack of tone.

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Thesleeper01

I have tested it a lot on different vehicles and the Pilum damage has it's largest advantage on tanks from the back, there it does about 3% more damage enough that you give the person inside about 1/2 a second less to eject. The hit from defaults will still explode it just as good. Anywheres else its only about 1%. I did not test it on walkers though so not sure on hits on the head.

Anospa

Do some forum searching, we have a lot of info on the engineer weapons and damages vs. vehicles in different spots.

The pilium does penetration damage, doing more damage in weaker armored spots, while the defaults explode on impact, doing decent damage all around.

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"Brittle?! Dude you just took a localized tactical warhead to the face." -Eroak

Uranium - 235

Lyra - the thing is, I can find anyone in any game who is godly with any kind of gimp weapon. I've run across snipers in 2142 who are frustratingly good shots, and do far, far better in the scoreboard than most anyone else. Does this mean snipers are overpowered, or that they need a ridiculous weapon to counter them? Hell no. Most snipers are utterly inept at their trade. Should balance center around the few people who are really, really good with something? Again, no, because that's not balance. Balance is an averaging process, a see-saw effect. Balance should look good on paper before it is tested in-game. Right now, even on paper it just doesn't look right.

And thanks for the pretentiousness, I didn't get enough of that from here today.

While that's nice sounding and how it really should work, it comes down to a few less-specific issues. Map makeup, for one. Many maps make it extremely easy for an Engineer to seemingly jump out of nowhere and hit you in the rear. Hell, he doesn't even have to be close. Yes, armor shouldn't just charge in blindly, but to pretend that armor never gets flanked is stupid. Enemies can move, you know.

Other maps like Highway Tampa, suicidal FAVs aside, reduce engineer effectiveness as there's very little for them to hide behind. So on a map like Belgrade, tanks are little deathtraps for the drivers, and on maps like Verdun, you see rockets coming a mile away. In one, the Engineers are too strong, in the other, Engineers have a harder time.

The nature of the Pilum itself is an issue. I rarely, if EVER, see Engineers use the default rockets. The warning tones are simply too much, and losing them for a weapon you have to aim a little is a one-sided tradeoff.

Not even the Assault kit rifles are obsoleted by the unlocks - every rifle is different a little bit. The SCAR is underperforming a little, but I still see people run around with Krylovs and SCARs in light of the Baur or Voss. They're just DIFFERENT, not BETTER.

The Pilum is different in a way that MAKES it better, to the point where it utterly obsoletes the regular weapons. Certain items / weapons being 'useless' alone is a balance issue. Why does everyone take rockets / defib instead of Herzog / defib? Because rockets are a billion times more deadly than the shotgun. Why take an IDS over a shield? Because the shield is weak and sad, and the IDS is extremely useful.

The last issue is where paper balancing fails.

Like it or not, the most balanced game in the world probably just isn't going to be that fun. If you played a true rock-paper-scissors game, you'd get bored to tears after a while. Getting one-shot in a tank by a Pilum sniper isn't fun. It's a frustrating experience, made doubly-so by the fact that if you compare a sniper headshot to a Pilum, the Pilum is easier, deadlier, and benefits your team much more. A headshot with a sniper rifle is hard to achieve, and the enemy just gets revived and runs on his way, or worst case, he has to wait 15 seconds. A shot to the ass with the Pilum will kill you *AND* other people, you have to wait to respawn, and that vehicle is out of commission for quite a while.

Are there other issues that should be worked out parallel to the Engineers? Yes - I mentioned the APC mortar, it's absolutely crazy how deadly this is. Nerfing Engineers and eliminating the 'cheese' behind vehicles should go hand-in-hand. I already suggested changing the Pilum to an EMP weapon of some sort.

I enjoy discussing balance, but if you're just going to whine about "LOL IVE BEEN PLAYING LONGER" or "ROFL U SUX", well, up yours.

Like the OICW 'smart' grenades. The issue to me is that rockets do a pretty hefty amount of damage alone. With four of them, they can wipe out half a squad with even lackluster aim. Then, quickly reload, and blow them up again as they revive. Long-range spam is easy, just fire in the general direction of an enemy.

I want them to keep the functionality of nailing a guy behind cover, but remove the ability to be a threat to multiple people. I obviously can't give exact numbers, but it should be ONE rocket per magazine, with or without the NS unlock. Increase the damage, but keep its splash range limited. A good shot will plaster a guy behind a low wall. A ****ty shot will just draw attention to himself.

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Thesleeper01

The thing is this Uranium the engineer IS balanced versus everyone in the game, if someone engineer is doing crazy things to kill you real easy then he is clearly a great engineer. You keep on getting what you like from YOUR skill set and saying that the game should change to meet that. No one here is having our problems, why is it that only you are being raped by engineers? Why is it that you keep on misrepresenting the problem?


I agree with this statement for the most part, the problem is that your playing with people that have had years playing the game to find all the hidey-holes and places where you can pop out and kill a tank. I for example have 22days 10 hours in game versus your 1 day 3 hours. You have played 47 min and 4 seconds as an engineer I have played 7 days, 1 hour, 40 minuets and 48 seconds as an engineer I have over 216 times your experience with the engineer. I have more than 7 times your total experience with the GAME in just engineer. I have 18 hours logged in tanks versus your 4. All that is telling me that you just don’t know what your talking about.

The best pieces of evidence I have is your score for tanks, you have a 2.72 kill death ratio! Your kicking but with it, sure your score is lowish so it is likely higher than it should be after you been in a while but right now your killing 2 & 3/4 people for every time you die! That does not say you need help if anything that says that engineers should be balanced if anything up contrary to what your saying.

You have proved yourself wrong with your own stats, your not looking for balance your to make the tank super deadly so you can rack up more kills with few deaths.

1 Warning tone only comes from the rocket if your zoomed (I believe) if you run up to the enemy tank and shoot him in the tail he will not have time to put up his shields and the defaults will also kill your tank with one hit. Damage is so close to defaults that the pilum can be considered the same damage.


No it does not, its just not that good and it has major problems that you don’t recognize. It is very VERY hard to hit a target at mid+ range.


Ummmmm …. So? Your kill death rating (including tank time) .77, your tank kill death rating 2.72. That said it all right there, tanks give you an advantage that is in your case 3.885 times your normal kill rate that alone is reason to justify tank but raping.


The APC is not unbalanced, it can be a bugger if your pinned down at come tower by one but for the most part any squad that is reasonably prepared for them will have little problems taking them out. This is coming from someone that has died 1603 times to them and killed 424 in them. You have only died 13 times to them totally.


I am sorry but you need more play time before your going to be taken seriously. I think it’s your lack of play time that is bringing you to these conclusions. You also seem to keep on using BF2 as a yard stick for balance even though you have said in the past that BF2 balance sucked.


You have hit on one of the weapons I agree is over powered Rockets and revives though the rockets are only really overpowered because they are in the same kit as revives. I mean if recon got rockets as they are instead of the stabilizer for example and assault got something different rockets would not be nearly as powerful. Its reaily the most overpowered thing in the game (revive) combined with a good good weapon rockets that makes them a bit much not intrinsic power of the rockets themselves.

Any kit can kill you at range, any kit can throw a grenade, any kit can jump in a rail gun and take out armor any kit can use suppressive fire much like a sentry gun would any kit can use the SL detector drone or UAV but only ONE kit can revive you when your dead….

DeimosManifest

I give up. I'll never convince Uranium the Pilum doesn't launch homing thermonuclear warheads that wipe out an entire team's tanks, the infantry, the commander, their mothers and their dogs in a single shot.

Sigh.

Edit: It's the SUDNIK that launches homing thermonuclear warheads. Ask Quade

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Tearing structurally-superfluous new behinds with high caliber weapons since 2006.

Crux

Complain less, learn more. The problem, Uranium has nothing to do with game balance. The problem is your confusing lack of personal skill for lack of game balance. They are not the same thing. Just because *you* can't do a good job of something or countering something doesn't mean things aren't balanced.

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Eroak

Yeah, a squad with Crux, Azrua, and Reaper is unbalancing enough in itself The Murder-Box Trio

But all in all, Crux sum up the best on what I was trying to point out. There are a few quarks (lord knows I hate the PAC walker), But most of the rounds really come down to tactics and/or skills that win the rounds(on the TG servers).

Here at TG the admin crew also outlawed tactics that were considered very unbalancing. Bunnyhopping, Rooftop beacons, and gunship transports.

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ThePromQueen

OMGFGLASER! Uranium, You must have some serious provocation ability to get Crux to post in your thread. His own squad hasn't even seen him in 2 months!

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