Re: Suicide Tactics (for the vetern players)

**sc1ence** · 05-19-2008, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by MDFubar

Suicide in any form is still suicide and against the rules.

Suicide tactics are against the rules. Suiciding because you spawned in with the wrong kit because of a known bug is not a tactic. It is the correction of an error.

**Mordona** · 05-19-2008, 08:09 PM

Science is right and this is a self moderated judgement. If a bug caused you to spawn a wrong kit or with tools you don't have selected, Its ok to fix the error. Now if you selected the equipment in error, you need to live with your mistake and may not suicide. Admins cannot moderate this, and this is based on trust that the players will abide by this. Also note that if your teams are locked on tickets, don't suicide whatsoever even if it is a bug! that ticket might be the winning ticket.

**MDFubar** · 05-19-2008, 09:20 PM

I believe I may have not been clear, I agree with Lorax in the fact that I do not use the suicide button. Suicide Tactics are against the rules, the terms described by Sc1ence are not tactics, but merely correcting a bug which is uncontrollable to the player.

**Catman1975** · 05-20-2008, 12:26 AM

Originally Posted by Eroak

I'm not sure why but anything having to do with killing yourself is suicide tactics. This means killing yourself so you can spawn for the walker in the UCB. Killing yourself for another kit.

To play devil's advocate here, these instances that have been noted by yourself could have also all been the correcting of an error. Not saying that they were in the instances you pointed out, but this part of your original post could be misleading.

Personally, spawning with the wrong kit or at the wrong location, I see as a problem that I have to deal with. I never use the suicide button I deal with whatever hand the game deals me.

**Mordona** · 05-20-2008, 01:31 AM

Ok, I think some of my words are being taken out of context. I'll make it more simple with a few examples.

Suicide tactics are any attempt to kill yourself and/or any scenario where you have no chance at coming out alive.

The only exception to suiciding is correcting a game induced bug where the player has no control over the nature of the bug.

Example of allowed suicides:

To correct any bug that can't be corrected by any other means.
(bug)Anytime your spawned in and disconnect from the server, your forced suicide. Sometime when we connect into the server we have no access to kits.
(bug)Your kit selection you spawn with is not whats currently selected when spawned and the tools are nessary to complete your current squad objective. (Don't kill yourself because you don't have your favorite gun.)
(bug)You spawn on a enemy squad leader or enemy flag.
(bug)You spawn out of geometry.
(exploit)You spawn on a squad leader who is exploiting geometry.
To change teams for balance if asked by a admin.

Example of non-allowed suicides:

Any bug knownly created by the player.
Spawning at a pourly selected or incorrect spawn point.
Spawning with the wrongly selected kit.
Spawning with the wrongly selected items.
Suiciding under CO or SL orders.
knownly Ramming
Lonewolfing into enemy fortified squads.
Gernade strafing (running in circles to lore in enemy while you toss a gernade at your feet.)
Running into known APMs to clear them
Suiciding for better spawn loaction.
**Running head long into a enemy to get yourself killed so you can spawn at your SL** (I have head on TS and VOIP that TG players were commiting to this tactic)

Remember these are examples. So allowed and not allowed tactics are not limited to this.

Importent: Any suicide witnessed or reported will be investigated. This is not to be taken lightly nor should any player seek reasons to suicide or loopholes in the rules to suicide.

**Uranium - 235** · 05-20-2008, 02:22 AM

While I rarely use the suicide button (maybe once every ten maps or so, if that, mainly because of a spawn point issue or a bad kit), I find this utterly, patently absurd, and I have to keep asking if it's April 1st...

What exactly is the basis for this anyway? Simulation? In that case, no more switching seats, or getting in enemy vehicles. In fact, if you get in any vehicle, that's the only vehicle you can use that life. After all, a gunship pilot is not and never will be trained on tank operation.

Is it for gameplay, ergo lost tickets? In that case, no more than one person to an FAV because it's fragile and dangerous. Squad members closer than three meters will be instantly kicked.

Finally, you say 'for the veteran players', and then in your last post threaten us with admin action. Which means certain rules apply to me that don't apply to 90% of the server. And I call shenanigans on that. The gentleman's agreement is one thing, because it says right in it that's it's non-enforceable. Holding me to a higher standard is another thing, as it still means the rules are the same. But saying I have MORE rules to obey just because I play here more... well that's some FDA-approved straight-up Grade-A horse****.

Add this to the gentleman's agreement if you want, but no way I'm going to stand having asinine, baseless restrictions dumped on me 'just because'.

**Lorax74** · 05-20-2008, 03:26 AM

Originally Posted by Uranium - 235

While I rarely use the suicide button (maybe once every ten maps or so, if that, mainly because of a spawn point issue or a bad kit), I find this utterly, patently absurd, and I have to keep asking if it's April 1st...

What exactly is the basis for this anyway? Simulation? In that case, no more switching seats, or getting in enemy vehicles. In fact, if you get in any vehicle, that's the only vehicle you can use that life. After all, a gunship pilot is not and never will be trained on tank operation.

Is it for gameplay, ergo lost tickets? In that case, no more than one person to an FAV because it's fragile and dangerous. Squad members closer than three meters will be instantly kicked.

Finally, you say 'for the veteran players', and then in your last post threaten us with admin action. Which means certain rules apply to me that don't apply to 90% of the server. And I call shenanigans on that. The gentleman's agreement is one thing, because it says right in it that's it's non-enforceable. Holding me to a higher standard is another thing, as it still means the rules are the same. But saying I have MORE rules to obey just because I play here more... well that's some FDA-approved straight-up Grade-A horse****.

Add this to the gentleman's agreement if you want, but no way I'm going to stand having asinine, baseless restrictions dumped on me 'just because'.

I don't know what you're talking about here. The "no suicide tactics" is NOT a new rule, it's an old one and it applies to EVERYONE that plays on this server. Are you being held to more rules than someone who just logged in for the first time? No, you're being held to the same rules. Everyone is expect to uphold and adhere to the rules, regardless of which rule is in question or how long a player has been here.

And I suggest you rethink what and how you post in the future. Crap like this:

Originally Posted by Uranium - 235

...well that's some FDA-approved straight-up Grade-A horse****.

and

Originally Posted by Uranium - 235

...but no way I'm going to stand having asinine, baseless restrictions dumped on me 'just because'.

has no place here. If you disagree with something, say so in a civil manner or don't say it. Enough already.

**Mordona** · 05-20-2008, 04:52 AM

Uranium , I dont have the faintest clue why you posted what you did. I can only asume you took it personal. You shouldn't.

I shouldn't have to explain myself for what I take as a hostile post, but... First as Lorax stated, It's a old rule. This is nothing new. My basis on making to post: I have witnessed personaly a few vet (1 year+) players, order squad members to suicide. I also have witnessed other players suicide at rear bases and then spawn at the front lines. These were never acceptable and this was a firendly reminder. Then my words were taken out of context and then some messages came in and it makes it look like people are now trying to find accpetable reasons to suicide.

So I put my foot down and said I'm enfrocing a rule that was always here. What wrong with a admin doing his job and trying to explain a rule that some members clearly don't understand.

You put on TG tags. You really need to clean up your posts. We have kids here and they can figure out what a few **** means. Do you know what wearing TG tags means? That already means your held to a higher standard. Break a rule and admins deal with it harsher then the average player that passes by our server. TG people shouldn't be here trying to find loopholes in our rules or ways around our system to get thier way.

**Uranium - 235** · 05-20-2008, 05:12 AM

Originally Posted by Lorax74

I don't know what you're talking about here. The "no suicide tactics" is NOT a new rule, it's an old one and it applies to EVERYONE that plays on this server. Are you being held to more rules than someone who just logged in for the first time? No, you're being held to the same rules. Everyone is expect to uphold and adhere to the rules, regardless of which rule is in question or how long a player has been here.

"No suicide tactics" has never been a "the suicide button is just for fixing bugs" rule. It's always been nothing more than an anti-ramming anti-RDX-whoring anti-other-kinds-of-relatively-self-destructive-for-major-gains rule. If it has been, this is the very first time I've ever heard anything remotely like that.

7) Suicide tactics and Jihad Jeeps are FORBIDDEN.

This includes RDX Jeeps, ramming any vehicle, and intentionally blowing yourself up to cause the death of another. Jihad Jeeps or ramming are forbidden even if you manage to survive.

As for the rest, sincere apologies, but from what I read, I was really quite floored / a little outraged.

TG's always taken a rather sensible stance on rules, avoiding "nit-picking", where condition A is okay, Condition B is okay, but Condition A+Y/Q is NOT okay, but ONLY if Condition B+O^F has been met. This is really quite an upsetting change to a rule that never needed a change, focusing on something that has zero impact whatsoever. It looks like a rule that exists just to have a rule about it.

TG people shouldn't be here trying to find loopholes in our rules or ways around our system to get thier way.

With all due respect, when you come out from the blue with a new rule (say what you want, this is a new rule) that borders on sheer insanity in nearly every regard, I'd be more surprised to see everyone just lay down and take it. As I said, this rule appears to have come into play for no, or simply very flimsy reasons, is attempting to correct behavior that has no appreciable impact on the game, and is going to be nearly impossible to enforce, so why even have it? If I get warned for suiciding, how do you know I don't have a bugged kit? Or anyone? Hell they could just say they did and there'd be no verification.

**Rasta-GR** · 05-20-2008, 08:13 AM

Cool down gentlements...

I believe we made this issue too complicated.

Let's leave it as it is, Rule No. 7:

Forbiben Suicide Tactics = "To gain advantage or intentionally blowing yourself up to cause the death of another"

For all the other suicide scenarios, evaluation and judgement to this behaviour sould be done by the rest of us, the TG members.

We play, we see, we evaluate our fellow members and we can make our judgement.

If we see a suicide behaviour that we do not like on another TG member, we can educate or never invite / join / play with this member.

The rule is sound and clear, we (TG members) are mature, objective oriented and teamwork enforcers.

For the reasons above, there is no point to further explain or amend the existing No. 7 rule.

Regards.

**Revolusinov** · 05-20-2008, 09:38 AM

I would be against suicide for any reason including kit bugs. If you spawn in, fight with whats handing to you or hijack the nearest kit. If you suicide it's costing your team a ticket.

And a side note of FAVs. Just because my FAV is 15 feet in the air and sideways, doesn't mean I'm not going to land it so quit bailing on me cause I'm tired of coming back to pick you guys up or running you over as you hop out. However if you see a tree.......or people.

**daithi1** · 05-20-2008, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Uranium - 235

With all due respect, when you come out from the blue with a new rule (say what you want, this is a new rule)

It isn't a new rule. It's a forgotten or old rule. There was talk of this when I first joined (apparently after you).

I am assuming the rule was common knowledge and wasn't talked about for a while. New members arrived, old members became inactive or left and it was slowly forgotten. Now Eroak is giving everyone a friendly reminder. Just because you (or most other people) haven't heard of it doesn't make it new.

Someone else mentioned this question. If I get kicked for the server for whatever reason and come back in on the other team and team balance isn't an issue (i.e. my new team is 1-2 players up), can I suicide to get back on to my original team and/or squad?

**Superfast** · 05-20-2008, 10:46 AM

I admit to having my whole squad suicide once. After that i learned it wasn't allowed. Ahhh, that felt good.

**Lorax74** · 05-20-2008, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by daithi1

Someone else mentioned this question. If I get kicked for the server for whatever reason and come back in on the other team and team balance isn't an issue (i.e. my new team is 1-2 players up), can I suicide to get back on to my original team and/or squad?

There is no hard and fast rule for this, use your best judgment.

**DrakenViator** · 05-20-2008, 11:14 AM

My two cents from a newer member...

Suicide to switch kits (unless kit glitch) or spawn points, as well as suicide to grab armor, or telling a squad to suicide should not be considered proper tactics.

Killing ones self to switch teams because of balance or because of a Master Server issues is regrettable, but understandable. The same would go for that annoying problem of switching teams when all you really wanted to do was switch kits.

To this effect I know that I am still rather new around here, but reading the rules myself I assumed that hitting the suicide button to gain an advantage (spawn relocation, kit change because a Walker is inbound and no one is an engineer, etc.) was against the the rules as they stand, but I will admit that they can fall into a gray area as others have suggested.

Thank you to the Admins for the clarification

~ Draken

Thread Tools

Display