Shingle, Mining outside UCB - How close is too close?

SharinganTH1422 · 07-24-2008, 10:09 PM

So this came up earlier today, we were PAC, and we were defending from Warehouses, our main purpose was to stop vehicles coming out of the UCB, as well as infantry. Now we never put mines within the UCB itself, but a couple of the guys put it right on those narrow lanes that the vehicles come out of. Don't want to start a discussion or debate here, just want clarification from either an admin, or some who just knows, and since no-one in our squad was entirely sure, I'm guessing there are others who also don't quite know the rules on this, which is why I didn't go to the Contact an Admin forum. Also, this can kinda be applied to other maps, so just want to know roughly how close is too close to the UCB, without going in.

P.S. We constantly got sniped by people within the UCB, and since we're not allowed to shoot into, or go into the UCB, just wondering the rules on that too.

Icehawk217 · 07-24-2008, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SharinganTH1422

P.S. We constantly got sniped by people within the UCB, and since we're not allowed to shoot into, or go into the UCB, just wondering the rules on that too.

I am not sure of the mine distance, but i think that is cutting it close.

As to the sniping, since they engaged you, you are allowed to fire at them.

**Lorax74** · 07-24-2008, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icehawk217

As to the sniping, since they engaged you, you are allowed to fire at them.

This is 100% correct. I can't comment on the mines yet without looking again at the map and discussing it a bit.

brain21 · 07-24-2008, 11:59 PM

I strongly believe that, if someone can get the time and the maps, they should open up MS paint, and draw a line around the UCB, then post said image onto the respective forums.

Visual representation is, 9 times outta 10, a better method of getting a point across.

**pred011586** · 07-25-2008, 01:18 AM

I believe the reason that hasn't happened, is that making those clearcut lines will just create a line where everyone will move up to lock the enemy in the UCB.

The situation at hand is a very interesting one. In EU's defense, those 2 paths are the only way out of the UCB in a vehicle. In PAC's defense, that location is the absolute best place to be putting mines down, as it's the only spot on the map that prevents a rush to Trenches AND Dunes. Mining further back requires two sets of mines instead of one.

My personal opinion is split both ways. Sure, EU can just check a MMBait and clear the motion mines, but should they really have to? And sure, PAC could just mine both sides, but again, should they have to?

In the end if I was an admin, I'd call that area off limits. Partly because it's the only way out of the UCB, but mostly because of the Rorsches on each side. One Rorsche shot will take out a buggy, and if both Rorsches shoot at a walker, along with an engie on the ground the walker will drop quickly. Plus you have a 2nd Rorsche on both sides in case the first volley misses.

This actually gives me the idea for running a full Rorsche squad. 4 Engineers, one on each Rorsche, and maybe 1 Recon, 1 Assault on Columns. Death in a Rorsche is unrevivable anyways so having Engies to repair the Rorsches would probably be better. The back two Engies could mine up their respective side then head for their stations. The reason for the Recon would be because Rockets in that situation would hurt the Engies also. Have the Recon spotting buggies coming in from it's high vantage point, and sniping enemies coming up to knife the Engies...

Sorry got a bit carried away there!

SharinganTH1422 · 07-25-2008, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brain21

I strongly believe that, if someone can get the time and the maps, they should open up MS paint, and draw a line around the UCB, then post said image onto the respective forums.

Visual representation is, 9 times outta 10, a better method of getting a point across.

Well...OK.

First off to just let you know where we are:

I turn left on that same roof, and move up towards the UCB:

Where the crosshair is on these next 2 pictures are the 2 places in question:

The next 2 pictures are roughly where people put MMs anyway.

The mines themselves are not in the UCB. Yet they are in the only place that vehicles can exit from. At the same time, even putting them further back down the road, closer to Warehouses flag - where people usually put them - Is still down the only road that vehicles can exit from, so does it make much of a difference? Other than to the attackers, who are forced to get out (if they can in time) closer to the flag, which puts PAC to a disadvantage.

**Eroak** · 07-25-2008, 11:02 AM

Long as hey stay outside the toll I would see that as fair.

**Catman1975** · 07-25-2008, 11:14 AM

I'm glad to hear that, Eroak

Looking at the map, the red circles are a fair distance from the uncap. I'd never mine inside the toll lanes, however, I did venture into that area once because the walker opened fire on me, I figured at that point any way of taking it down was fair, including dropping mines.

Technically we have the same issue with Camp G, the only real difference is there is a cappable flag between the UCB and the toll station. The first thing everyone does on Camp G is mine toll station because there's no other place for buggies to go, Tunis is the same way, it's a little more open, but there are really only two paths to take to get past Junkyard.

SpartanH · 07-25-2008, 11:28 AM

I am glad you brought this up sharingan, and i am thankful for the answers cause as sharingan said we weren't to sure how close is too close.

**Eroak** · 07-25-2008, 12:52 PM

Dont take what I say as an absolute. If we find that there is placement that can't be breached (unbalanced) we might move it back.

Again I find myself preaching but this is where members need to know their own boundries and pull back if they have to high of an advantage. Make sure when you do anything, that the enemy can counter your tactic in some faction with reasonable awareness.

**jazy2** · 07-25-2008, 02:19 PM

As EU, placing mines this close to our UCB would be quite pointless. Sure, an all assault squad would have trouble but an Engy with bait has quite a bit of cover to move into inside the "toll" area. From right beside the mines there should be no trouble clearing them.

EMP mines would need some sniper help as I think difusing would not be an option!

**Lorax74** · 07-25-2008, 03:08 PM

It would be fairly hard for an engineer to get there off an initial spawn. The only time I miight envision this becoming a problem is if EU can NOT break out of their main at all or they've been pushed back into it. This is one of those "best judgment" cases.

SpartanH · 07-25-2008, 06:21 PM

As a question of the bait if their inside the UCB using bait does that count as making them hostile the same way repairing downed assets does?

**Lorax74** · 07-25-2008, 07:27 PM

There should be no mines within their UCB, if there is and they clear them out - the answer is no. However, if a hostile engineer attempts to remove mines OUTSIDE of the UCB, s/he has made themself a valid target and is fair game.

**Eroak** · 07-26-2008, 01:44 AM

Put it this way, You should never seek targets inside a UCB. Sometimes the targets find you, Mostly APCs, tanks, and returning Gunships.

Don't look into UCBs unless they are firing at you or your squad. Jsut because a engineer is throwing minebait, doesn't mean his team or squad is ready for assault. UCBs on TG are staging gounds and allow time for leaders to devise tactics to assault.

The only legit targets are those that shown desire to directly engage combat or have returned to the UCB from active play.

What's Desired combat? Thats any player who is willingly engaging combat at own free will. A player that is attacked or provoked by UCB asset squads are not legit ranged targets. they are asasulted and not engaged at will. Thus they have not proven orientation, but if the assaulters are attacked, by rule they are allowed to defend themselves.