Re: You make the rotation

**Lorax74** · 07-28-2009, 05:37 PM

New directions for suggesting a rotation: Include the night. Monday nights are infantry focused, Fridays are focused on armor. Wednesdays are up for grabs, we'll call it variety night, and all other days not mentioned that end in "y" are whatever you'd like.

**Zoraster** · 07-28-2009, 06:14 PM

Fair enough. I suggest the following for the regular, nonspecial days:

Verdun 16p
Tunis 64
Cerbere 64
Camp g 64
Belgrade 64
Operation shingle 64
Sidi/suez/shuhia/verdun 32
Fall of berlin 64

I like this one a lot... More than my other suggestion for a couple of reasons: 1. It is simple and short. 2. It prioritizes our favorite maps 3. It balances assaulting and attacking and head to head maps really well. 4. It requires less diddling by admins than my suggestion (just swap out the armor map every day or two days and it keeps it fresh. Finally 5. I think it's great that the community was able to come together to make something like this. Kudos for kelvin for starting this one.To illustrate the balance this has, say you stayed for a full rotation with sidi as the armor map.

This is what you'd get:
Eu head to head
Pac head to head
Eu defend
Pac attack
Eu head to head
Pac defend
Eu head to head
Pac attack

You'd defend twice and attack twice.

**Lorax74** · 07-28-2009, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by Zoraster

Fair enough. I suggest the following for the regular, nonspecial days:

Verdun 16p
Tunis 64
Cerbere 64
Camp g 64
Belgrade 64
Operation shingle 64
Sidi/suez/shuhia/verdun 32
Fall of berlin 64

I like this one a lot... More than my other suggestion for a couple of reasons: 1. It is simple and short. 2. It prioritizes our favorite maps 3. It balances assaulting and attacking and head to head maps really well. 4. It requires less diddling by admins than my suggestion (just swap out the armor map every day or two days and it keeps it fresh. Finally 5. I think it's great that the community was able to come together to make something like this. Kudos for kelvin for starting this one.To illustrate the balance this has, say you stayed for a full rotation with sidi as the armor map.

This is what you'd get:
Eu head to head
Pac head to head
Eu defend
Pac attack
Eu head to head
Pac defend
Eu head to head
Pac attack

You'd defend twice and attack twice.

A few things...

A short rotation with an even number of maps will get stale quicker than a short rotation with an odd number of maps. The reason is simple: when the rotation loops, the teams play the same maps as the same faction rather than swapping sides. An odd number of maps in the rotation forces the teams to swap sides during each loop.

Also, I would thing spreading the favorite maps out over the course of the rotation would give the server a more stable player base. With all of the favorites at the beginning of the rotation, what happens when a less than favorable map comes up? I would think players will disconnect knowing the rest of the rotation is not as fun for them as the first portion of the rotation was. If we spread them out, that might give more players incentive to stick it out an additional round, even if the map sucks, in order to get to the next, more enjoyable, map.

**Zoraster** · 07-28-2009, 11:33 PM

Originally Posted by Lorax74

A few things...

A short rotation with an even number of maps will get stale quicker than a short rotation with an odd number of maps. The reason is simple: when the rotation loops, the teams play the same maps as the same faction rather than swapping sides. An odd number of maps in the rotation forces the teams to swap sides during each loop.

Also, I would thing spreading the favorite maps out over the course of the rotation would give the server a more stable player base. With all of the favorites at the beginning of the rotation, what happens when a less than favorable map comes up? I would think players will disconnect knowing the rest of the rotation is not as fun for them as the first portion of the rotation was. If we spread them out, that might give more players incentive to stick it out an additional round, even if the map sucks, in order to get to the next, more enjoyable, map.

I thought about that, but the rotation should take 3+ hours. I'd be happy to stick in a 16p map to end the rotation. It'd mean two 16p maps in a row when the maps loop around, but it's not that bad. 3+ hours is a long time, and I think it's just as likely that those sticking around that long will have switched teams at least once anyway.

As for spreading the favorite maps out, I don't think this is necessarily bad as it is. Though fall of berlin and op shingle aren't as liked as the four other infantry maps, people consistently seem to put them not SO far behind. The armor map kind of makes things a little drudgery, but I don't think it'll affect things too badly.

And given the frequency of server crashes, it's possible on some nights that the maps at the end won't ever get played.

That said, I'd be happy if you can think of a good alternative to this that keeps the general idea of the rotation.

**Smachin007** · 07-29-2009, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by Zoraster

Fair enough. I suggest the following for the regular, nonspecial days:

Verdun 16p
Tunis 64
Cerbere 64
Camp g 64
Belgrade 64
Operation shingle 64
Sidi/suez/shuhia/verdun 32
Fall of berlin 64

Originally Posted by Zoraster

That said, I'd be happy if you can think of a good alternative to this that keeps the general idea of the rotation.

How bout instead of a 16p map thrown in it, we throw a second armor map in it. The rotation as you made it left a 1/8 map, that's not nice in my opinion. I'd be happy with a 2/9. It would also give it the odd number it needs. So...Something like this maybe:

Verdun 16p
Tunis 64
Cerbere 64
Sidi/suez/verdun 32
Camp g 64
Belgrade 64
Operation shingle 64
Sidi/suez/shuhia/verdun 32
Fall of berlin 64

Is it reasonable for me to ask for 1 armor-centric map per 3 or 4 infantry based maps?

**Zoraster** · 07-29-2009, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by Smachin007

How bout instead of a 16p map thrown in it, we throw a second armor map in it. The rotation as you made it left a 1/8 map, that's not nice in my opinion. I'd be happy with a 2/9. It would also give it the odd number it needs. So...Something like this maybe:

Verdun 16p
Tunis 64
Cerbere 64
Sidi/suez/verdun 32
Camp g 64
Belgrade 64
Operation shingle 64
Sidi/suez/shuhia/verdun 32
Fall of berlin 64

Is it reasonable for me to ask for 1 armor-centric map per 3 or 4 infantry based maps?

that would be less preferable, and we would return to the problem of an armor map basically 3rd in the rotation which is a killer.

also, by putting it cerbere, armor, camp g, you have two maps of one team assaulting without a map of defending.

**Smachin007** · 07-29-2009, 01:09 AM

I am no genius with rotation, henceforth why I have not made one before now. The point I was trying to get across was that 1 armor map out of 9 maps is a quite scarce. I would be ok with 2 out of 9, then you could have 3 or 4 maps between them.

**Zoraster** · 07-29-2009, 01:56 AM

Originally Posted by Smachin007

I am no genius with rotation, henceforth why I have not made one before now. The point I was trying to get across was that 1 armor map out of 9 maps is a quite scarce. I would be ok with 2 out of 9, then you could have 3 or 4 maps between them.

It's really 1/8 given that 16p maps are hardly the same thing as 64, but either way, it's scarce but not unreasonably so. Armor maps end up taking close to twice the time to play over most infantry maps (well, except when camp g gets into grind mode, but that's only a fraction of the games played on camp g).

One of the reasons I've said I'd like to keep the prominent armor fridays is because it allows us to do a regular rotation that only has a small smattering of armor in it and STILL allow armor lovers to get a good dose of their play. Having both armor friday and a more armor heavy regular rotation seems like overkill and does our server a disservice.

**Smachin007** · 07-29-2009, 02:17 AM

Originally Posted by Zoraster

One of the reasons I've said I'd like to keep the prominent armor fridays is because it allows us to do a regular rotation that only has a small smattering of armor in it and STILL allow armor lovers to get a good dose of their play. Having both armor friday and a more armor heavy regular rotation seems like overkill and does our server a disservice.

That argument does not work, you gotta look at this in more than one angle of this is how I(As a player who prefers infantry to armor) see it. There are players out there who have the exact opposite view of you.

So how about Infantry Mondays then? You're asking for a "small smattering" of armor in the daily rotation and then give us one day that is armor overload, yet at the same time you want your Infantry only Mondays so you get your dose of Infantry overload, and still have your regular rotation that is focused on Infantry also.

2 armor maps in a rotation of 9 maps is armor heavy? I don't think so. There are those of here who play this game because it has the armor in it. If I wanted to play strictly infantry I would go play CS:S or AA3. I thought asking for a 1:4 ratio of armor to infantry maps wasn't being unreasonable. Especially when you want a ratio of 8 infantry maps to 1 armor map.

**Hablos** · 07-29-2009, 04:46 AM

I´m not going suggest a rotation here, but I´d say that two maps out nine total being armor would be a fair balance. People generally like different things and this would give a bit more variety to the normal rotation.

After all it´s always possible to disconnect for the time it takes for the armor map to get played. I know I´ve done this a number of times when I haven´t felt like tanking.

**LordKelvin** · 07-29-2009, 06:45 AM

At this point I don't even care if you switch the server to 24/7 Minsk Inf Only 64, just lets DO something already.

**INSUNABULA** · 07-29-2009, 08:36 AM

I appreciate the fact that there are more "infantry" players than "armor" players but as Smachin mentioned, we need to still be able to cater to the armor crowd too.

2/9 Armor maps sounds a little scarce to me and would even prefer it to be upped to 3/9 (an even third of the rotation).

I have seen first-hand the effects of an unpopular map loading with up to half the server disconnecting which is why I suspect the round takes so long to play (with only half the players) but as the round progresses the server fills back up to the point where for the next map the server is back to a respectable capacity.

**Zoraster** · 07-29-2009, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by INSUNABULA

I appreciate the fact that there are more "infantry" players than "armor" players but as Smachin mentioned, we need to still be able to cater to the armor crowd too.

2/9 Armor maps sounds a little scarce to me and would even prefer it to be upped to 3/9 (an even third of the rotation).

I have seen first-hand the effects of an unpopular map loading with up to half the server disconnecting which is why I suspect the round takes so long to play (with only half the players) but as the round progresses the server fills back up to the point where for the next map the server is back to a respectable capacity.

Which is why I support armor friday staying as it is. It caters to the armor crowd without damaging our server on a regular basis.

Also, just because the server is filled doesn't mean the quality is the same. If you replace 10 regulars with 10 non-regulars, your quality of play is going to suffer. This is okay sometimes as non-regulars need to play so that we get new blood in, but doing it often is not.

3/8 seems really high to me and will lead to about a 50% armor map play time. 2/8 is still pretty high and will probably lead to about a 35-40% armor play time. 1/8 may seem like only a little, but it'll probably lead to roughly a 20% of the time being played on an armor map. This seems to be a reasonable result given the servers' preference.

Originally Posted by Smachin007

That argument does not work, you gotta look at this in more than one angle of this is how I(As a player who prefers infantry to armor) see it. There are players out there who have the exact opposite view of you.

So how about Infantry Mondays then? You're asking for a "small smattering" of armor in the daily rotation and then give us one day that is armor overload, yet at the same time you want your Infantry only Mondays so you get your dose of Infantry overload, and still have your regular rotation that is focused on Infantry also.

2 armor maps in a rotation of 9 maps is armor heavy? I don't think so. There are those of here who play this game because it has the armor in it. If I wanted to play strictly infantry I would go play CS:S or AA3. I thought asking for a 1:4 ratio of armor to infantry maps wasn't being unreasonable. Especially when you want a ratio of 8 infantry maps to 1 armor map.

I'd be happy to give up infantry mondays if the rotation were put to what has been suggested. I think it's a nice change of pace, but I'd be happy to give it up if the regular rotation were better. But again, a monday night is not equivalent to a friday night.

You say you play because of armor, and that's fine. I understand that. But first, the infantry maps DO have armor in them. Second, the proposed amount of play does provide armor maps in the rotation.

**Lorax74** · 07-30-2009, 09:51 AM

Current rotation:

Code:

maplist.append cerbere_landing gpm_cq 64
maplist.append camp_gibraltar gpm_cq 64
maplist.append sidi_power_plant gpm_cq 32
maplist.append tunis_harbor gpm_cq 64
maplist.append shuhia_taiba gpm_cq 16
maplist.append operation_shingle gmp_cq 64
maplist.append verdun gpm_cq 32
maplist.append belgrade gpm_cq 64
maplist.append fall_of_berlin gpm_cq 64
maplist.append minsk gpm_cq 32

**LogicalHarm** · 07-30-2009, 09:55 AM

oh yes minsk. gonna be a fun night.

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