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08-02-2008, 09:12 PM #46
- Join Date
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Re: An Honest Query from the 3rd.
The 3rd is a great bunch and i personally don't think they are much different from other ihs. I also think the reason why the 3rd gets the "elitist" and "you are team-stacking" more than other ihs is that they play comp, have solid sl'ers and have some good fraggers in the squad. So they are noticed.
Solution? Just try to even the teams out. 3rd don't team-stack any more than other ihs. Actually, the team-stacking on our server isn't bad. I've experienced much worse.












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08-02-2008, 10:20 PM #47
Re: An Honest Query from the 3rd.
"Only the Dead have seen the end of War"..........

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08-03-2008, 01:25 AM #48
Re: An Honest Query from the 3rd.
Sleeper -- regardless of the facts, one thing is obvious: we caused grief and there was a lot of upset people at the end of the night.
For that and our conduct that night, I'd like to apologize to all involved. We should have realized the teams were stacked earlier and we should have tried to even things up.
We are mistaken, and you are right. I do believe this was an isolated incident, but I will look in the future to prevent such things from happening. If you or anyone else see a bunch of people in the 3rd channel causing a team imbalance, you are more than welcome to stop by the channel and discuss the team balance.Fight!
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08-03-2008, 02:21 AM #49
Re: An Honest Query from the 3rd.
People on the forums say to me you been here since Jan 08 and you only XX number of forum posts, and I should be on the forums more, I usually say I'll comment on things that are really important to me or at lease might help someone else. So I feel have something important to say and apologize for the length of my reply I just want to make sure I've expressed myself as well as possible in this matter. !!!
I remember the evening of the 26 July 08 very well. I have to say it was the worst Tactical Gamer game experience I ever had since joining. I don't how many times I have started writing about this trying to not make it out as I was a sore loser or I was whining about my lack of skills when it comes to playing this game, but every time I did I get angry think about what happened that night. I wasn't going to say anything until I started reading this thread. From my point of view, this has nothing to do with in-house squads whether it’s the 3RD, 8Th, 11th, 21st, E1st, ...., or the 55th. Its how we as members make a choice on which side we are going to play on.
Every time before I start playing and that evening was no different, I check Xfire to see how full the server is and who's playing then I log on to team speak 2142 channel, and finally I scroll down to see if anyone is their IHS squad channels. That evening in the 11th IHS channel there where 6 members in there from 3 different IHS and a regular TG member (Zhohar's squad). I thought "Hey good for them for teaming up, I know who is going to be in at lease one Squad all evening." I checked Xfire again and counted TG player on each side and Seeing those 6 player where on the same side, that is when I made my choice that I was going over to the team with the lease amount of TG players, which was on the other side of Zhohar Squad.
After 2-3 rounds of losing horribly (just like Sleepers commented above) we asked in Team Speak to have some of the member to switch sides to even things out a bit. Well I was shocked at what I heard and I took offence to the comment that was implied towards me. It was basically something along these lines. "What are you guys talking about you have a lot of TG players", which then someone started listing names, until that person finished off with my name, which I remember clearly what was said next, " and Besides you guys got Stark..." and then there was a chorus of Laugher right after that. Hey I'm a big Boy, been in the military for 23 years I know how to take a good ribbing from my peers but in this content it reminded me of school yard bullies pointing out someone deficiencies with little regard to that individual just so every one can have a good laugh. That being said, Zhohar and your squad had little knowledge of what was happening in team speak, and with you guys being in the 11th IHS channel made it clear you guys have teamed up to have some fun period.
I like to add wearing the TG tags doesn't make you this super star FPS player. I really consider taking them off after that comment, because thats not what is stated in the rules of conduct... RIGHT. What those members said and did not do was in fact gloating and with them not willing to consider changing side from my point of view, was like them saying, “watch we are going to do it again”
At that time I was very pissed off, told Sleeper I'm taking a break in which Cerebere was the next map to be played, after I calmed down and ready to play again I asked Sleeper if the round was over and how did his side do, he said they won, only because the other side started using their knives. I see this action was like them saying "OK guys let give them this round, we'll be a knive squad" in fact its just as bad as gloating. Being a poor sport is one thing but there is nothing worst than a bad winner in my books!!!
You know I could have logged back on to the server and went onto the side that was winning all evening, No, not how I saw it, I was going to help out as much as I can, hell I'm not the best shot, and with near 6000 revives under my belt at lease I keep up those player who are.
Well that night didn't get any better us, round after round we started losing TG players, with them logging off saying well I had enough of getting raped for the night... I'm thinking this isn't what I paid $80.00 for. Our TG number got down to 3 to their 11 and did any one of them come over and even things up? Not once. (I have a screen shot of the players if anyone wants to see them.)
At that point I was wishing I was an admin, and this is what I would have done right then and there. I would have stopped the map, then randomized the teams and set the server on Auto balance. You log on to the server and get put of a team, those are the player you are playing with PERIOD, if you don't like it leave, and if the sever sits empty for a day so be it.
I ask you guys what is the challenge in playing round after round when you win buy 180-0 or total cap out in less then 10 minutes into the round? I would like to know.
Another thing is being done at the end of the round and you hear in team speak people saying “Good Game”, What’s so good about a game when one team beats the other by over 180 tickets, NOTHING. What I think is a good game is when the ticket count is right now to the wire anything under 30 tickets is a good game, or if it’s a cap out and the team that caps the other had less then 20 tickets, and I’ve seen that and it was a great game. Hearing "Good game" from the other team in situtation like that is the last thing I want to hear and I would consider that gloating.
How I see this is, there are outstanding player here in TG, and when they play they will draw players to them, regardless if they like it or not its true. These outstanding players can influence the flow of the game, their squad members play better, and 90% of the time they are on the winning team. Now when you get 2 or 3 squads on one side and each squad had 1 or 2 of these outstanding players well then the outcome of that map is clear who is going to win.
The problem isn't the outstanding player really, one can't fault people for playing really great. It’s the rest of us that are at fault. We tend to flock to these players with the hopes we are going to be INVITED into their squads, well there is only 5 slot people, (4 really we should invite a visiting player to make them feel welcome to our server). And when one of these outstanding player switch sides to even things up.... Do you know what happens... we; their groupies follow them over to the other side just to make it uneven again. Ask Zhohar about this it happen last night 1 Aug 08, and I said over team speak that this was a bunch crap, and at that time I was on Zhohar side but not in his squad, We won that round by a huge margin and Zhohar was going over to the other team to help out. What happen was Zhohar complete squad joined him, so what happens to the team they just left we were down 5 really good TG players, 6 counting Zhohar. How I see this act is like "what are we not good enough to play on the same side with out X player leading you" That kind of actions don't go unnoticed, pubbies thinking about join up, or what about new members that just paid there membership, what do you think they are thinking or feeling, "Oh I quess I'm not part of the in crowd" it might not be your intent but your action can reflect something totally different ie. as being elite.
I really wanted to swear my head off as anybody in the military could do that night I was so angry by this sheep like behavour. But that’s our problem. I've stopped asking for invites from outstanding players, if they want me to be in their squad they’ll invite me. I check Xfire and avoid playing on a side with more than 2 outstanding player, always go to the side with less TG player on it and try my hardest to switch side when its the other way around, all knowing this side I'm going to is going to get their ass whip this round, and push the subject of getting on to Team Speak. In Team Speak we can request members to swap up, we have no control on those players that visit our server and we have a lot of very good, to outstanding pubbie that play here, and they know who our Outstanding players are and they too switch sides to be with them or at lease be on the same side as them. I've seen it happen after rounds.
Like it or not to all you outstanding players you are in fact leaders of this community and its obvious at the end of each round who is on top and if we want to keep having new people join this community, what happen on the 26 July 08 should never happen again.
I would like to clarify when we say even the team up, we should make it clear, its not the number of TG player its really the number of outstanding players are on each side.
When we play on these servers and wearing the TG tags we are representing this community, and when new players join up and get on to team speak witness questionable behaviour, do you think they would want to spend $80.00 to become a supporting member… if that happen when I was thinking about my membership, I don’t think I would have become one.
So lets prove to ourselves what we say we are, being mature players, always up for a challenge and fix this unbecoming behaviour, and return to having a good time at something we all enjoy.
Concern,
Stark
PS,
As I finishing this up it made me remember those first few members I meet as a pubbie that made me feel welcome and part of the team as well as really the only server I want to played this game. Once again Thank you BB Gun, Sc1ence, DaddyofThree, Lorax, and Eorak.
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08-03-2008, 02:42 AM #50
Re: An Honest Query from the 3rd.
You're welcome buddy.
WE can discus who may have been at fault ad infinitum, but the bottom line is that we all need to have fun together. This post is related to everyone...not just one IHS.
This will require:
1) Stepping back to have the perspective to see what your actions do to the other team. a.k.a 'empathy'
2) Remember that what we enjoy the most is playing against talented, like-minded individuals. If our actions drive them out, we are shooting ourselves in the foot.
3) Have fun. We can gloat about a sweet knife kill, but instantly congratulate someone on a finely executed move that saved the map.
Let's pull it together guys. Keep our standards high, and have as much damn fun as we can have. I'll be there...|TG-9th| BBgun. - I'll put your eye out, kid.
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08-03-2008, 02:51 AM #51
Re: An Honest Query from the 3rd.
Well said Stark...well said!
I for one will be the first to join the other team if I see that they are done a couple of players. This was a problem on the PR side of the house about a month ago. Certain IHS reputations were getting smeared because of the PERCEPTION of teamstacking. Let me tell you this, being in a IHS DOES NOT MAKE YOU BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE! It just gives others the perception that it does. The only thing that I can see as an advantage is that they know what to expect from each other without having to constantly remind them what to do.
I don't consider myself an excellent SL, but I do pretty good. I enjoy trying to mold pubbies into TG quality players! I know I can speak for 96% of the normal Squad Leaders here when I say I enjoy a good challenge. I like being on the opposite team than Zhohar and the 3rd. 75% of the time, I know he will beat me...but the 25% makes it all worth it.
So in closing, the PERCEPTION is the problem here! It will immediatly demoralize the opposite team when they see the OpFor with TG tags on.
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08-03-2008, 03:00 AM #52
Re: An Honest Query from the 3rd.
Well said Stark, BB, and Dirt. I do think one reason teams do get stacked is the fact that we enjoy playing with other like minded individuals. After all, that is what drew us all in some sort of way here to TG. But I know it is sometimes easy to forget that we enjoy playing against like minded individuals too. We often get so focused on who we want to squad with to be the most effective on the map and have the most fun, that we forget the fact that with online games it's not just who you play with; it's who you play against.
We like to play with other TG players because they already should have accepted the rules and guidelines that we all follow. I run squads mostly when the server is fairly empty, sometimes you will get that frustrating squad that doesn't know how to hold spawn, and runs in all different directions once you get in. Yes you could leave the squad and go with your fellow TG buddies, or you could stick it out and turn those players into more TG players.
The more we show our way of play, the more people will play it. The more people will join us here, which means more people to meet and squad up with. IHS? Yes we have the -(insert number here) after TG, but we need to remember the part of the tag we all wear; TG.
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08-03-2008, 03:21 AM #53
Re: An Honest Query from the 3rd.
What should have I done differently Stark?sk Zhohar about this it happen last night 1 Aug 08, and I said over team speak that this was a bunch crap, and at that time I was on Zhohar side but not in his squad, We won that round by a huge margin and Zhohar was going over to the other team to help out. What happen was Zhohar complete squad joined him, so what happens to the team they just left we were down 5 really good TG players, 6 counting Zhohar. How I see this act is like "what are we not good enough to play on the same side with out X player leading you" That kind of actions don't go unnoticed, pubbies thinking about join up, or what about new members that just paid there membership, what do you think they are thinking or feeling, "Oh I quess I'm not part of the in crowd" it might not be your intent but your action can reflect something totally different ie. as being elite.
I honestly felt offended by your comments last night: maybe I misinterpreted them, but I felt like I was a gang leader of some elitist squad that was making people feel unwelcome.
I played a round as a squad leader, saw that the teams were heavily imbalanced, and announced in TS after round end: "I don't think the teams are even skill-wise fellas. Zho's going to switch to the other team." So I switched teams, and all of a sudden most every TGer and server regular switches to the other side as well.
I was fairly disgusted with this myself and if I recall correctly, I left shortly thereafter.Fight!
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08-03-2008, 03:35 AM #54
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- Age
- 47
- Posts
- 309
Re: An Honest Query from the 3rd.
Im pretty sure I was on for some time during the infamous night - but I have refrained from posting as Im not on TS ( doesnt work with my VOIP ) and am not 'savvy' about all the TG customs yet cuz Im new.
I read your post Stark - good points - and I understand your frustration.
In fact I read all the posts trying to grasp the situation and sort thru the angst.
I truly believe I can help alleviate this tension with a little enlightenment - so please bear with me.
Sometimes it helps to zoom out to get the big picture and put everything in perspective.
TG isnt something you pay $80 a year to enjoy. Well not for me anyway. I gave my money because I believe in what TG is trying to do - period. Prior to finding the TG server I was about ready to give up with online gaming. Sportsmanship ? Teamwork ? Fairplay ?!?! HAH !!!
Anyone who has gamed with me knows I cant have fun without teamwork and I could care less about my stats. Being part of a team thats firing on all cylinders .. its magic .. win or lose I have great fun.
I was a Boy Scout ( ok there I said it ) and I got to the rank of Life before I was 18. I missed my Eagle by just a hairsbreath because I lagged, my own fault. Scoutmaster said to me ' Go Ahead and do it and we will back date it ' ...
Somehow that really really disappointing to hear coming from the Scoutmaster - I declined - my mom was pissed - whatever .. I sleep well at night.
There are certain things I can NOT do, simply because it goes against my grain. These same things irritate the !$&%@&*! out of me when I see others do them. It makes it easy for me to feel righteous and BASH them for being a jerk.
Then I remember what Eroak reminded me of recently.
Its better to educate than bash. Lead by example; Help the weak; Encourage instead of discourage; you know ... be a Boy Scout.
This doesnt just apply to the guests - it applies to everyone, even TG
The BuxomBombshells is the clan that inducted me 6 years ago and gave me that crazy tag and a womans name and admin duties. I have to say I learned a considerable amount during that time and I made many friends. It was sad to see it fracture and self destruct because of petty differences which could have been easily resolved - but thats the way we humans are I guess.
I dont want to see that happen here - please
Be Constructive - Be Considerate - Be Receptive - Be Open Minded
We are human; we are imperfect; despite our best efforts even the best TG'er will fail sometime(s) - does that mean they have turned to the dark side ? I think not.
At the end of the day remember ....
We are ALL cut from the same stock. We all endorse the same principles. We are all on the same team.. so we should try to help one another whenever possible
We are TG .. and there are far too few of us on the planet.
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08-03-2008, 03:38 AM #55
Re: An Honest Query from the 3rd.
One thing that bothers me is when a member such as Zhohar switches teams to attempt to balance and 3-4 other people can't grow a pair on their own and switch teams right with him making it even more imbalanced.

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08-03-2008, 04:02 AM #56
Re: An Honest Query from the 3rd.
I'll be honest I'm not sure what to say or what to make of all of this. I still consider myself a new member of |TG| heck I still feel new to the game as a whole. I think that there have been some things done that people haven't realized how their action have effected others. Yet I don't think this is the end of |TG| nor any of her members, but this is my own opinion.
The next question: What tone of voice do you perceive when you read this? Do I sound angry, sad, joyful, confused? To me I would say somber. Not aggravated nor confused, but worried and cautious. Yet if I had not said this some may have thought otherwise. Perception is an issue, how we view our statements versus how others view our words.
I know I'm going off topic, but lets face it, people see things differently then each other. I think that is some of what we are facing here is difference of thought, and perception. We are striving to be a group of 'like minded individuals' but no matter what we do we are still individuals.
Sorry if I'm not making any sense, I just see that some of what is going on here is people on all sides not realizing how others view them. We talk about 'situational awareness' in game, yet it seems like our senses are failing out of game.
I don't know, maybe I'm grasping at straws...
~ Draken
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08-03-2008, 04:13 AM #57
Re: An Honest Query from the 3rd.
Martha...I don't know what to say other than well done, well said and you are why TG goes on...Thanks.
|TG-8th|RAGE


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New to TG start HERE * 8th Mercs * Admin List * Supporting Membership
I am a proud former IRRegular!
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08-03-2008, 04:45 AM #58
Re: An Honest Query from the 3rd.
We all know that putting on the TG tags and/or being in an IHS doesn't make you special, it doesn't make you a FPS God, to most people complaining about team balance I think that's what they see/think. OK so all TG/TG3rd/TG9th/TG8th are on one side, they must be stacking.
We know that's not true, but most people outside of the community don't.
As for teambalancing the "good" players, who's going to start that list? So everyone thinks Zhohar is at the top of that list, who's next? Dirtboy? OK so now we know Dirt and Zhohar can't be on the same side. Who else is on the list? It's too much. OK gee, well Cat's at the bottom, that means everyone thinks I suck, well hell why do I want to play with them?
With that being said, losing by 160 tickets 2 maps in a row something needed done. What? I don't know, but on this night, this is what I imagined happened:
So Zhohar announces, Hey we're winning by too much here, I'm going to switch and even things up a little. So each guy that heard this thinks, well Zhohar's not a God I should probably switch too. Then you have a mass exodus to the other side and teams are still unbalanced.A captain of the most awesome IHS ever and remember to burn before you pillage.
Big-eye101: "A true catman post a day keeps the bad mood away"
Please do not take any posts made by Catman seriously. If you begin to take his posts seriously, please call us you are in need of serious psychiatric attention. We are available 24/7 at 1-973-409-3277, please scream into the phone as soon as it's answered, we will identify you as a catman follower from that and direct your call to someone who can attend to you immediately.


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08-03-2008, 04:47 AM #59
- Join Date
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- 5,666
Re: An Honest Query from the 3rd.
It's everyone's responsibility to counter team-stacking, regardless of game.
And let's face it, if the teams are unbalanced and people follow the SL'ers they enjoy playing with every time, it's difficult to even out.
I remember posting this a while back about countering team-stacking or organised squads like the
ones you guys mention with Zohar's men. It's real simple. They are just one squad, out-squad them.
http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...tml#post947631
So get organised and do it. No one wants to SL? Even though you don't feel secure about SL'ing, try it. You don't have to be good at all or have much experience with it. Sometimes just being a spawn point really helps, regardless of anything happening in the squad. And you will learn and get better by it. And you will be teaching TG as well. It's all good.












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08-03-2008, 06:38 AM #60
Re: An Honest Query from the 3rd.
Nothing Zhohar, I think you missed my point to my post, it wasn't directed at you or any other outstanding player its was directed to the rest of us players that keeps following you guys around like lost sheep. When it only takes 2 players to even out the teams we get a whole squads leaving to following you guys, and thats why I was angry Friday night not because you are trying to do what was right but the other players actions, and where those TGers in team speak some of them where some where not.
So what can you do differently? You love Squad leading, so next time you change sides to balance it out, and players from you last squad follow you over. Don't let them in your squad, I'm sure players on your new team would love to be in your squad. Do that a couple of times and see how many people will follow you from on side to the other. We have to take charge of things we can control and by having those outstanding player say no to those players that follow them around can solve some of this issue.
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