Re: Titan, Pilums, Destroying consoles and bears oh my!

**black_Mirror** · 09-30-2008, 06:53 PM

I would prefer that we all talk about that in a few weeks again.. ( that does not mean to stop that discussion right now ) Cause it sounds nice and easy.. maybe even fun in theory... but be in that situation of mine ( dominating a titan match and lose the round in a few moments ) and tell me it was great fun.
But i guess it could be if i would be prepared for that. My own fault i guess.. next time it won´t be that easy for you guys!
Now i learned my lesson and won´t be overrunned so easily next time.

cheers.

**Mech__Warrior** · 09-30-2008, 08:37 PM

I've actually seen it more and more of it now that it has been brought up. It sure throws pubbies for a loop, expecting people to head down the corridors.

**Vortex421** · 09-30-2008, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by Eroak

TG isn't about preidicting the enemy; Thats not very realistic about war now is it?

Both the American Civil War and World War II would like to politely disagree with this statement.

The American Civil War was largely fought under the premise of predicting where the "enemy" would be. Robert E. Lee gained fame because he could predict what his enemies would do and then be where they were not expecting him. Many times it worked to his advantage.

World War II involved many battles which required you to predict where your enemy would be and then be where he was not. Battle of Midway, though a naval battle, required the Planning Staff of CINCPACFLT to anticipate where the Japanese carriers would be and dispatch their carriers accordingly.

Forgive my interruption - I've studied wars quite a bit. Most of them, even the ones fought in recent times, are based off of knowing your enemy well enough to predict their movements and then make sure you are where they are not.

"If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles." --Sun Tzu

(Sorry, not entirely relevant to the topic at hand but something I felt bears mentioning all the same)

**R.Stark** · 10-01-2008, 01:23 AM

How I see this is the advantage should go to Titan defence, and any attacking forces should have a hard time getting to the core regardless.

Those people who see this as a valid tactic are those players that 90% of the time are storming the Titan, and I would venture to say they hardly ever be the ones defending their Titan. Before this game element came to light these player would meet heavy resistance getting to the consoles, and would be very frustrating for them to say the lest and through careful timing and determination they would get to the core. But in most cases they would get frustrated and leave the titan to capture silo to ensure the win.

I wouldn't be apposed to this situation if there was an equally unique countermeasure to the Engineer Pilum rounds hitting the corridor shields. I know there is the augment that it takes 14 shots with the Pilum to take the shields down and it takes a long time to take now the shield.

Lets think about that for a second an engineer has 6 magazines of 1 round each for the Pilum and it takes 4 seconds to reload. with that being said a 6 man squad 3 engineers, 1 support, and 2 Assault Medic. Can easily take down console one with in 16 second after the first Pilum shot was fired. with spare ammo to start on the second corridor shield, and as I'm aware that the hits to the shield are accumulative, so if that squad gets wiped out after the first attack they will continue on right where they left off once they re spawn back. The most likely place where the attacking team will go would be the upper hallways there it provides them the most cover, its easy to gain access.

Now if there was a countermeasure equal to this such as the engineer repair wrench repairing the damaged console or shields. This would be an equal pairing, but there isn't. Why I said damaged, just trying to be fair here if the console is destroyed there is no way to repair it. Mind you an engineer can repair the Titan Gun turrets after they have being totally wiped out, which makes no sence at all when it comes to repairing the shield consoles in the corridors.

Like I said the advantage has to go to those who are defending their titan, like any other Assault map, the Defending side has the advantage.

But the reality of it all is to have EA or Dice putting out another patch to change this is unlikely considering this is a 2 year old game. I challenge everyone of you that
thinks this is a valid tactic to come up and share a proper defence against it. I'll add mine to it as well. As they say a good defence is a good offence.

**PM..** · 10-01-2008, 05:24 AM

Originally Posted by R.Stark

I wouldn't be apposed to this situation if there was an equally unique countermeasure to the Engineer Pilum rounds hitting the corridor shields.
Lets think about that for a second an engineer has 6 magazines of 1 round each for the Pilum and it takes 4 seconds to reload. with that being said a 6 man squad 3 engineers, 1 support, and 2 Assault Medic. Can easily take down console one with in 16 second after the first Pilum shot was fired. with spare ammo to start on the second corridor shield, and as I'm aware that the hits to the shield are accumulative, so if that squad gets wiped out after the first attack they will continue on right where they left off once they re spawn back. The most likely place where the attacking team will go would be the upper hallways there it provides them the most cover, its easy to gain access.

I have a counter measure for you.. Rather than defend the corridors and the cargo bay by 3 and 4, just defend the entrance to the titan.. With 1 support and 1 medic on both the upper halls, and 2 others in the cargo area, it only needs 1 squad to defend the whole titan! I can't remember who's squad I was in, but we worked this tactic very well recently, and the attackers stopped coming after a short while. That was probably because we were behind and losing pretty bad, but this meant they did not keep our squad busy, and in our boredom, we attacked their titan and distroyed it in minutes. Had they kept attacking, even though they had little hope getting through, a presents on our titan would have kept us there, and maybe they would have won.

There has been a lot of talk about team stacking and how it's just the inexperience of the other team. Without going into this here, the argument is the same. If 1 side can out smart, or know better tactics, they are more likely to win. This is simply 1 of those tactics that if your not aware of, you will suffer from. I don't see it as a glitch at all, we just need to defend better and counter it. (3 Engies in close combat should be easy to deal with...)

**VforVash** · 10-01-2008, 12:31 PM

I guess I don't understand why it's such a big deal to defend against. I've played on your servers enough to know that if you've got a squad with pubbies you'll often set them to defend an area while the SL goes to another area to scout.

How hard would it be then to go to an upper console just to make a check of the area? If there are engy's there they're going to see you, and while your there you could call your squad to come out of the lower hall and clean them up from behind.

**Mordona** · 10-01-2008, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Vortex421

Both the American Civil War and World War II would like to politely disagree with this statement.

The American Civil War was largely fought under the premise of predicting where the "enemy" would be. Robert E. Lee gained fame because he could predict what his enemies would do and then be where they were not expecting him. Many times it worked to his advantage.

World War II involved many battles which required you to predict where your enemy would be and then be where he was not. Battle of Midway, though a naval battle, required the Planning Staff of CINCPACFLT to anticipate where the Japanese carriers would be and dispatch their carriers accordingly.

Forgive my interruption - I've studied wars quite a bit. Most of them, even the ones fought in recent times, are based off of knowing your enemy well enough to predict their movements and then make sure you are where they are not.

"If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles." --Sun Tzu

(Sorry, not entirely relevant to the topic at hand but something I felt bears mentioning all the same)

Are we playing BF1942 or BF2142? Notice how war has trended from medieval to current date. Rank and file lasted till the Civil War era. Then WWI & WWII had their organization to them and predicability but they also change the dynamic of warfare overall. Did anyone predict how effective aircraft carriers would be in WWII? Did anyone forsee how effective the bubble army would be? This thinking at the drawing board was all outside the box. Now push yourself farther into the future of modren day warfare. The superpowers all withhold their locations until the last possible moment. We you extended range munitions so the enemy doesnt know where they are being hit from. Aircraft hits you and is gone before your heart stops beating. Everything about your enemy is unpreidicable in close quaters(< 2 miles) warfare. Now push it into 2142. Now what do we expect? Continuing the dynamic of warfare evolutions.

**Rivengard** · 10-01-2008, 01:05 PM

I've rarely seen this tactic used by TG SLs in defending the titan, but I've found that the two titan vents are very defensible using recons with lambert, rdx and apms. Good recons can take out any assault on the lower consoles since squads tend to bunch up outside the corridors and to some extent provide some intel for those trying to pilum the upper corridors.

There may be a drawback to this tactic though... dunno...

With regards to this topic I don't see any negative implications of trying to pilum the shields, it just adds more challenge in defending the titan rather than the stale nade corridor spamming it usually bogs down to.

**Shurikane** · 10-01-2008, 01:19 PM

Just stick on the splash page that shield overloading is allowed. Problem solved.

BTW, people who attempt a shield overload leave themselves quite wide open to attacks. A single well-placed grenade can stop the maneuver dead in its tracks, and one or two cargo bay hunters can make life frustrating for the next incoming invasion.

**R.Stark** · 10-01-2008, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by VforVash

I guess I don't understand why it's such a big deal to defend against. I've played on your servers enough to know that if you've got a squad with pubbies you'll often set them to defend an area while the SL goes to another area to scout.

How hard would it be then to go to an upper console just to make a check of the area? If there are engy's there they're going to see you, and while your there you could call your squad to come out of the lower hall and clean them up from behind.

The Tactic that is being used here, doesn't have the Engineers standing in front of the shields of corridors 3 & 4, they are usually located in the upper hallways above the cargo bays where from they have a direct line of fire to the corridor shields. My point is the attaching team doesn't even have to set foot on cargo bay deck to take down either one of these shields which can be taken down easily within 45 second and that's even having the engineers getting resupplied.

**Photometric** · 10-01-2008, 03:20 PM

I don't know if this is possible, but maybe an official request made to DICE from the whole of the TG community might get a final definitive answer.

This would then be made to ripple through the communities. Maybe if DICE understood the debate they can confirm or deny and end the dispute once and for all.

Additionally, I think that us coming to a decision as an organization and posting it on the boards would go a long way toward communicating our policy and then no one has an argument. If someone comes to the server, they are responsible to read our boards. Also, it will help getting new SM's as well.

Just a couple of thoughts.

**SuperDudeBT** · 10-01-2008, 03:33 PM

I had never heard of this "tactic" before now. Though, I did just see someone doing it the other day.. I was wondering what he was doing.

**Zhohar** · 10-01-2008, 04:08 PM

Quick question for squad leaders -- has anyone tried to co-ordinate this type of assault between two squads?

Engineers firing at the shields have extreme tunnel vision and are vastly underpowered in terms of firepower defense. Not only that, since the enemies have pods, it's easy to sneak up on the firing engineers. If the engineer squad encounters any resistance at all in the cargo, esp. medics, they are at a distinct disadvantage.

Now ... coordinating with another squad leader in order to have a squad of medics watching the six engineer's backs -- now you're talking. Has anyone tried this yet?

**VforVash** · 10-01-2008, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by R.Stark

The Tactic that is being used here, doesn't have the Engineers standing in front of the shields of corridors 3 & 4, they are usually located in the upper hallways above the cargo bays where from they have a direct line of fire to the corridor shields. My point is the attaching team doesn't even have to set foot on cargo bay deck to take down either one of these shields which can be taken down easily within 45 second and that's even having the engineers getting resupplied.

Then wouldn't it also be easy to have an assult go to the coridor entrance and fire rockets into the area where the engineers are?

Like all legit tactics in this game there are always balancers. If a squad keeps it's head down in the corridors the other team can take out the sheilds. But, an aggresive squad can turn the tables on the attackers.

**Photometric** · 10-01-2008, 05:22 PM

There *might* have been a similar designed tactic that doesn't utilize that composition. Personally I think it is much harder to defend against. It does require serious teamwork and coordination of the attackers and by the time the defenders move to adjust, it might be too late.

Need to test it a little bit and I don't want to open pandoras box...

Thread Tools

Display