Re: Titan, Pilums, Destroying consoles and bears oh my!

**Zoopy** · 10-01-2008, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by Eroak

Are we playing BF1942 or BF2142? Notice how war has trended from medieval to current date. Rank and file lasted till the Civil War era. Then WWI & WWII had their organization to them and predicability but they also change the dynamic of warfare overall. Did anyone predict how effective aircraft carriers would be in WWII? Did anyone forsee how effective the bubble army would be? This thinking at the drawing board was all outside the box. Now push yourself farther into the future of modren day warfare. The superpowers all withhold their locations until the last possible moment. We you extended range munitions so the enemy doesnt know where they are being hit from. Aircraft hits you and is gone before your heart stops beating. Everything about your enemy is unpreidicable in close quaters(< 2 miles) warfare. Now push it into 2142. Now what do we expect? Continuing the dynamic of warfare evolutions.

I guess this is why America can't win wars anymore, no one bothers to plan/predict attacks.

**Vortex421** · 10-01-2008, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by Zoopy

I guess this is why America can't win wars anymore, no one bothers to plan/predict attacks.

It's silly to assume that one member speaks for a nation. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not, but this really isn't the venue to pick up that thread of the discussion. Let's keep this thread on-topic, please.

**Mordona** · 10-01-2008, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by Photometric

I don't know if this is possible, but maybe an official request made to DICE from the whole of the TG community might get a final definitive answer.

This would then be made to ripple through the communities. Maybe if DICE understood the debate they can confirm or deny and end the dispute once and for all.

Additionally, I think that us coming to a decision as an organization and posting it on the boards would go a long way toward communicating our policy and then no one has an argument. If someone comes to the server, they are responsible to read our boards. Also, it will help getting new SM's as well.

Just a couple of thoughts.

Watching EA/Dice for years, they are going to withhold any public annoucement on a free platform until they can make a patch to deny it. Remember pod spinning? They withheld until they could confirm they could fix it. There will be no quick answer. Either they'll make patch and make the call in the patch notes. Or not release the patch and forget about it.

**PM..** · 10-02-2008, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by Zhohar

Quick question for squad leaders -- has anyone tried to co-ordinate this type of assault between two squads?

Not yet, but I'll give it a go when I get the chance.. So long as SL's are in right TS channel.

**Shurikane** · 10-02-2008, 07:59 PM

DICE is already being spammed majorly enough as they are from other forums. Here is their most official response to date:

From Barrie Tingle of Dice on 8/28/2008:

"It actually takes 14 shots on the shield to destroy the console below.

As to whether it is a legitimate tactic we will leave to the individual server administrators to decide.

After all they are attacking the Titan.

Barrie"

**R.Stark** · 10-03-2008, 01:45 AM

Originally Posted by Zhohar

Quick question for squad leaders -- has anyone tried to co-ordinate this type of assault between two squads?

Engineers firing at the shields have extreme tunnel vision and are vastly underpowered in terms of firepower defense. Not only that, since the enemies have pods, it's easy to sneak up on the firing engineers. If the engineer squad encounters any resistance at all in the cargo, esp. medics, they are at a distinct disadvantage.

Now ... coordinating with another squad leader in order to have a squad of medics watching the six engineer's backs -- now you're talking. Has anyone tried this yet?

Originally Posted by Photometric

There *might* have been a similar designed tactic that doesn't utilize that composition. Personally I think it is much harder to defend against. It does require serious teamwork and coordination of the attackers and by the time the defenders move to adjust, it might be too late.

Need to test it a little bit and I don't want to open pandoras box...

Originally Posted by PM07SNV

Not yet, but I'll give it a go when I get the chance.. So long as SL's are in right TS channel.

Well this proves my point, the advocates for this tactic are the ones that are using it and have no desire to discuss a proper defence to it. I simply through out the bone for everyone to come up for a Defence for this Tactic but it seems they wants to talk about the how to improve this already effective tactic.

This tactic effects everyone sooner than later, it might not happen to your side the next Titan around, but it will the next.

The feeling I get everyone wants to play offence and no one want to play defence. These two rolls go hand in hand in a titan round. We talk about following orders and if your CO is telling you to Defend what are you going to do say "no we are going to attach their titan get another squad to do it" Well thats not whats in the primer.

**Razcsak** · 10-03-2008, 03:37 AM

Okay, lets talk defense. You man the Titan AA turrets, first. You set an engineer or two with a SAAW on the roof of the Titan. Neither of these are normally done. Instead of running back to console 1 or 2, you fight them first on the roof. They have to pod or spawn somewhere, so kill their SL or destroy their beacon. They're coming in from APCs? Use the Titan guns. Failing that, have that SAAW engineer drop motion mines from the Titan. If the APCs aren't moving, follow it up with bait. Once you're driven off the roof, set up shop in the vents and main deck. Two supports with shield and sentry can hold each vent for a long while, so put one each there. Two supports and two assaults can hold the main dock easily enough, provided the supports in the vents hold out. Even if they don't, rockets from the deck assaults can do decently at clearing the upper catwalks. Intermittently send one of the deck supports, armed with a shotgun, up to the top outer deck. You should see attacks massing since IDS will be everywhere, so if you can time a friendly shotgunner coming in behind a squad as they prepare to rush either the vents or the lower entrance, it will be bloody. If they push deeply enough, one person from the squad (the shotgunner) should be able to take out their spawnbeacon as they'll be deep in your Titan at this point. This defense should hold fairly easily against a 6-man attack. More than that, and you'll probably be driven back eventually, but it should take a hell of a long time. If they're sending more than a squad at you, you're ahead troop-wise on the ground, so all you can do is hope your team can take and hold silos (or their Titan). That's still one squad on Titan defense, holding a very defensible area, but its now no longer a nigh-impenetrable defense.

Now, that sounds like a hell of a lot more fun than "get four assaults and two supports in corridor 2, drop ammo/medhubs, tape down right mouse button." Happy?

edit: to elaborate on the roof defense: Two AA engineers on roof, shoot stuff. Two pilum engineers on guns. Two support/recon with sentries/APMs laid in corridor 1/2 also on guns. Shoot stuff. APC/Transport gets through lots of shooty. The four on the guns pod up to back deck and should arrive nearly simultaneously with attacking force. Fight for roof, with the four gunners switching to assault/support if they die/take kits. The only issue is holding off the initial push through the gunline.

**pred011586** · 10-03-2008, 09:32 AM

I haven't played in awhile, but I remember in 1.4 that spawn beacons often couldn't be destroyed when placed on a titan, has this been fixed in 1.5? I've played a ton of CQ since 1.5, not much titan. =(

**Mech__Warrior** · 10-03-2008, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by pred011586

I haven't played in awhile, but I remember in 1.4 that spawn beacons often couldn't be destroyed when placed on a titan, has this been fixed in 1.5? I've played a ton of CQ since 1.5, not much titan. =(

Nope, they have not fixed it.

**Superfast** · 10-03-2008, 10:20 AM

It's like all other experience. Those that know it will use it, those that don't will learn it when they loose and finally new tactics will come from it. Defend the entrance to the Titan tactic is one such tactic. Amen.

**Photometric** · 10-03-2008, 11:54 AM

Defense:
The key to defending the titan is to hold the entry points from the roof. The reason being is that it holds the only place a engineer can execute a shot from cover.

However, the enclosed quarters increase splash damage so grenades and rockets are more effective in that corridor and an engineer has little chance at that range with the peashooter vs assault's rockets or suppports grenades.
From there are fallback positions none providing 95% cover as hallway 1 will.
I love the defense tactic to just sit in a hall and spam grenades but it is too easy and racks up mulitiple kills with little or no threat to the defending team which is never realistic.

A well structured defense will provide a series of checks and balances. The very nature that the titan is so high up in the air is the first line of defense. What we are saying here is the defending team has to work at defense instead of sitting back. I already have a 5 point defensive strategy but I have not played a titan game for two weeks to confirm some assumptions nor had time at my comp at home to type it up.
Stark, making broad sweeping statements that people are only focused on assault and not proper defense is probably not the most productive argument. Some people want to have time to research a plan before presenting it to the community and look foolish.
I'll type something up, verify something and present a plan to the community when I have time.

**Razcsak** · 10-03-2008, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by R.Stark

We talk about following orders and if your CO is telling you to Defend what are you going to do say "no we are going to attach their titan get another squad to do it" Well thats not whats in the primer.

I'd like to point out that nowhere, nowhere in any of your quotes was there anything about them avoiding Titan defense or ignoring the CO's orders. Implying that they did is, frankly, insulting to all involved.

**DaBrit** · 10-03-2008, 03:40 PM

While I didn't know this was possible until this thread, I don't see why it's being discussed. It clearly makes sense from a realism point of view, and actually injects something fresh and new into what has become stale gameplay of attacking a titan. It's clearly an option available to both sides, and it might take some thought to counter the strategy, but it's neither an overwhelming advantage nor one that cannot be countered.

**pred011586** · 10-03-2008, 05:01 PM

Question 1: Do pilum shots go through bodies?
Question 2: Would jumping in front of a pilum shot to save the shields be considered a suicide tactic and thus not allowed on TG?

Reason: If you happen to be in a situation with a multi-squad defense of your titan, if the first squad is defending the hanger bay but the engineers are still getting pot shots here and there regardless of the fire put on them, maybe it'd be good to have 2 assaults with rockets and defib at corridors 3 and 4 ready to take the hit from the pilum to protect the shields? If it's even allowed on TG due to the suicidal nature of the idea it'd definately be interesting to watch on BR after a match.

**Razcsak** · 10-03-2008, 05:58 PM

It would be interesting, but Pilum shots are almost always non-reviveable.

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