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Discussion: Battlefield 2142 / Battlefield 2142 - General Discussion - Titan - UCB Rules? - So, last night on Suez Canal Titan there was a discussion going on about 'spamming'
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10-30-2008, 01:46 PM #1
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Titan - UCB Rules?
So, last night on Suez Canal Titan there was a discussion going on about 'spamming' the titan with Titan AA guns, when a pubbie complained that this shouldn't be allowed. The guy said most servers ban this, as it causes lag, as well as being unfair for those in air-assets coming off the titan.
TG'ers were saying this is legit on the TG server, and I was wondering why this is the case?
Furthermore, I'd like to add to this the question of placing motion mines on top of the Shields.
In my mind, both practices equate to firing on the UCB, without being fired upon. The rules already point out that the ground base of a team in Titan mode is not a UCB, thus, does this not mean that the safe zone - i.e UCB - for teams is the Titan dock?
I'd like to know peoples' thoughts on the matter.
- Regarding AA spamming causing lag, I've no idea if this claim is legit for the whole server, but it certainly slows things right down for those with lower end systems.
Cheers, Logic.
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10-30-2008, 01:54 PM #2
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Re: Titan - UCB Rules?
It has been discussed and ruled upon by the admin team that the spawnable area under the titan at the start of the round carries no UCB limits as the Titan will always be a safe spot to spawn and pod from.
http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...ease-read.html
Mining of the titan shields can be countered by podding and minebait therefore is also allowed. You let your shields go down you pay the price. You have to control the top once the shields are dropped or you may not have access to your airsupport.
To be clear, there are NO UCB'S in titan mode on a TG server.
As far as spamming the shields with AA. I have seen this only when 2 titans are in visual range and the AA is spamming the shield before a ship can leave. I would warn someone for such an infraction as I could not stop them by normal means. If someone is spamming shields with ground AA, pod down there an kill them.|TG-8th|RAGE
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10-30-2008, 01:56 PM #3
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Re: Titan - UCB Rules?
AA spam is legit and there is no evidense that it causes lag. It's also great supression fire since the weapon doesn't overheat and keeps their aircraft on the deck or take risky moves that make them end up dead.
The UCB rule was removed from titan because of titans that sit at UCBs. This would cause much confusion with people trying to get to the titan via APCs. This would also prove to be a hard rule to administer since most non-tg members are trained to gain the enemy's APC and use the UCB assets to gain access to the enemy titan. I fairness to everyone (members, non-members, and admins) we decided to make this ruling.The soldier formerly known as, Eroak.
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10-30-2008, 02:11 PM #4
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Re: Titan - UCB Rules?
By this logic we could walk into a CQ UCB and 'suppress' them, so as they don't 'take risky moves'. And yes, I see that firing Titan AA does not damage the gunship behind the shield and so it doesn't really fit the analogy, but someone 'suppressing' the shields isn't about to stop firing once you're out of the shields. Moving out of the shields into fire gets you killed, without the chance of retaliation. The rules of UCB are you cannot fire upon a spawned enemy unless that enemy engages you first. I would see it as perfectly reasonable to extend this to Titan AA guns.
Originally Posted by Eroak
Re: Mines, I would agree it is the defending teams responsibility to control its deck. But just one more thing to add, if you haven't had a motion mine field unlock (for non northern strike players) then you cannot counter it (defuser will only work if mines are close to the deck).
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10-30-2008, 02:20 PM #5
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Re: Titan - UCB Rules?
I don't know if there is a rule against spamming the Titan guns with AA guns, but it doesn't look unfair to me.
- The gunner in a AA guns is exposed so it's very easy for an enemy to drop next to it from the Titan and take the gunner out. It is also pretty easy destroy the AA with rockets or anti-vehicle rounds from the Titan.
- Since the gunner is concentrating his fire on the Titan gun, he can't engage enemy aircrafts. For an enemy gunship he is now a sitting duck. If the AA gunner chooses to redirect his attention against aircrafts, this gives ample time to repair the Titan gun and destroy the AA gun.
Considering the Titan can be moved around to control almost all silos with it's guns, it would feel unfair to me if we were to prevent people on the ground proper defense against it.
Now, I didn't know that AA guns created lag on lower end machines. Is this true? I remember when I was playing on a lower end machine, the worst thing that could happen was to have a smoke grenade explode right next to me. This would drive my FPS to 4-5 and make me extremely vulnerable. It was frustrating for sure, but I didn't expect people to stop using smoke nades because of that. Basically, I think it's ok to ban exploits and unfair tactics (such as attacking uncap base, spawn camping) but I think it's wrong to ban a tactic based on performance issues.
Anyway, if we were to vote on this issue, I'd vote against banning this tactic.
******* EDIT *******
Oh well, I didn't notice we were talking about the Titan's AA gun. Still, there are many ways to counter this, such as landing an engie on the enemy titan to destroy the AA guns. I stick to my point regarding performance issues.Last edited by Gronigo; 10-30-2008 at 02:24 PM. Reason: Once again, I didn't read the original post right...
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10-30-2008, 02:24 PM #6
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Re: Titan - UCB Rules?
Gronigo - I think you've misread. I'm talking about Titan AA guns, not ground based Rorsch's.
+ I'm not basing the banning of this tactic on performance issues. I was just mentioning it as that is what was brought up by the guy complaining on the server.
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10-30-2008, 02:30 PM #7
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Re: Titan - UCB Rules?
As far as I'm aware, the only thing that can destroy Titan AA guns is a TV missile. Am i wrong? Plus, if it is possible to destroy with Pilum, this cannot be done while main shields are up. Originally Posted by Gronigo
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10-30-2008, 02:40 PM #8
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Re: Titan - UCB Rules?
The difference between the Titan and CQ UCB is that you don't HAVE to take those aircraft to get off the titan. Podding out is a perfectly legitimate means of leaving the Titan. Whereas in CQ the UCB generally only has one way out, and is way too easy to bottleneck the enemy in there. Plus if you push in to far to a CQ UCB you might start killing people as they spawn, which isn't fair to the spawning team, whereas on a Titan you have plenty of time to run up the aircraft of your choice, notice the AA Spam, get out, run to the pods and use them instead. If you get shot down from AA Spam on the Titan shields, that's entirely your fault for taking off in such conditions. You don't see radio towers telling mother nature to quit raining because planes have to take off! Just like them, deal with the surrounding conditions, or don't fly. The only other person responsible for your death (besides the person who gets the kill of course) is your CO for letting the Titans get so close together. Originally Posted by LogicalHarm
As for taking out the Titan AA guns. Engie rockets/Pilum to the backside of the guns will make short work of the guns. If they're close enough to spam your shields, they're most likely close enough to pod onto the top of their titan and take out the guns for the next pilot.
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10-30-2008, 02:50 PM #9
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Re: Titan - UCB Rules?
If this is the case and you can take out Titan AA with Engie kits then there is no need for this discussion, apart from when the main shields are still up. Originally Posted by pred011586
And yes of course podding is an alternative to getting off the titan, but in this case I'm referring to having a useful asset (i.e gunship) being paralysed by a weapon that you cannot counter unless you're already in the air.
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10-30-2008, 03:32 PM #10
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Re: Titan - UCB Rules?
From what I read the Pilum can destroy the Titan's AA gun. Originally Posted by LogicalHarm
What if you man your own AA guns, wouldn't this cancel the advantage the other team has?
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10-30-2008, 03:34 PM #11
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Re: Titan - UCB Rules?
Well yeah, but, on the other hand, instead of doing that, you could both jump in a gunship and fight it out in a much more entertaining way than sitting in your seat holding down the fire button doing absolutely nothing. Originally Posted by Gronigo
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10-30-2008, 03:44 PM #12
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Re: Titan - UCB Rules?
I have to agree with you on this. Originally Posted by LogicalHarm
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10-30-2008, 04:18 PM #13
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Re: Titan - UCB Rules?
Its more interesting to run around trying to knife people, but that doesn't mean we don't typically sit back and rocket the ever-loving hell out of everything. Originally Posted by LogicalHarm
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11-02-2008, 05:17 AM #14
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Re: Titan - UCB Rules?
There is that. There is also asking your commander to move the Titan, which I've had to do a few times as a commander for precisely this reason. The way I see it, it is a good tactic to try to convince an enemy commander to back off from a silo - they have to choose between having their gunship assets effectively neutralized or providing titan gun support to a particular silo. Originally Posted by Gronigo
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11-02-2008, 11:30 AM #15
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Re: Titan - UCB Rules?
Just a quick note: Once upon a time spamming the shield of an enemy titan with your titan's AA guns dramatically increased the lag inside the enemies titan, that's where the rules came from originally on most titan servers.
At some point they patched it and it is a lot less noticeable (if any at all).
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